[Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute

Ian Dees ian.dees at gmail.com
Sun Feb 10 17:27:21 GMT 2013


Hi all,

This thread is getting unproductive and crossing into personal attacks.
Please consider if talk-us is the best place to talk about one person
behind essentially behind their back.

If you feel there's a problem with a particular mapper please contact the
mapper and the Data Working Group to help mediate the discussion so that it
doesn't run rampant and one-sided on the mailing list.

Remember that there are lots of people that get these messages and what
might appear as defense of the project to the vocal minority might look
extreme and intimidating to the quiet majority that want to participate.

-Ian (as a talk-us moderator)


On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Russ Nelson <nelson at crynwr.com> wrote:
>
> > His malice is encapsulated in his inability to work with other
> > people.
>
> Furthermore, he makes mass edits. There are not edits that one can
> accomplish simply by hand. He is doing many thousands of edits, and we
> have evidence that this must be automated. He ignores local mappers,
> local edits, and insists that he's right (with edits) even when told
> by on the ground mappers that he's wrong).
>
> So what we have is someone running around, bullying the mappers, and
> running bots on the system.
>
> > For example, I dislike a particular global modification to my
> > work that he has made. I know that he has more spare time than me to
> > pursue his ideas, and so I haven't bothered to fighting on it, because
> > I know he will fight me, and I know he will win.
>
> > So I have resigned myself to allowing OSM to be a little bit worse
> > because of him. How many other people have made the same decision?
>
> From my interactions with mappers, more than a few.
>
> And these are just the mappers who have talked to me about it.
>
> > How much worse is OSM because of NE2?
>
> Have people here read The No Asshole Rule? In this book, the author
> outlines how bad behavior (bullying especially) is not neutral, but
> had major negative impacts on workplaces.
>
> NE2 is a bully, plain and simple, and his impacts are felt throughout
> the community.
>
> To answer others questions, we have banned others, mostly temporarily.
> It is an extreme action that the community has taken in order to bring
> the seriousness of a situation to light.
>
> In my view, those who are the defending NE2 the most are the ones who
> have dealt with him the least.
>
> OSM should not be Mad Max, or a cowboy environment, and by allowing
> "assholes" to be allowed to bully communities, we are making the
> problem worse.
>
> - Serge
>
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> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
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