[Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute

stevea steveaOSM at softworkers.com
Mon Feb 11 22:30:50 GMT 2013

Once again, I stand with Apo here.  He and I together with other 
local OSM community (along with repeated messages to mk408 and 
eventually Frederick Ramm/DWG) got him blocked.  This evidently 
frustrated mk408 so much that he "stayed away" and the block became 
an effective "ban."  Afterwards, I know that Apo and I both were 
diligent in scanning our area for edits under a new username with his 
signature defect:  promoting most roads in Silicon Valley to 
tertiary.  As this didn't happen, the block worked, effectively 
"banning" him.

I'm not sure if NE2 were so blocked he would stay away, nor would it 
be so easy to determine "his style" of edits, they vary so much.  But 
what I believe we _would_ be able to determine if NE2 were to return 
after a block (a well-deserved block, in my opinion, if not for this 
single turn restriction dispute, but many others as well) is this: 
we would be able to detect his exceedingly argumentative, 
avoid-consensus-at-all-costs, my-way-or-the-highway (sorry) antics.

I believe NE2 to be engaging in what might be called "scent-marking:" 
he likes his moniker to be associated with very peculiar, and 
especially large-scale edits.  Some of these might actually be 
correct in a mind-bending, minutia oriented way, but in my opinion, 
the costs (of what we spend discussing his outrageous behavior, which 
really, it appears, is why he is here) far outweigh the benefits. 
There really are people who "get off" on attention-getting, by 
whatever method, especially bad, and NE2 appears to be one of them. 
His behavior is sociopathic to OSM.  He is a smart and clever 
sociopath, but acts as one nonetheless.  My dictionary defines this 
as "manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior." 
I need neither a degree nor a license to make this determination:  I 
am not a psychologist, simply observant.

You'll note I am not mincing words here, as this particular truth 
does not need to be coddled in politically correct overly kind 
assuagements of "let's extend benefit of doubt."  We've done that far 
too many times with NE2, and as of now, in my opinion, he should 
rightly, fairly, and soundly be blocked.  Vandalism is vandalism. 
Let us continue to say that that is what it is.

Please, I call upon OSM's DWG to take the appropriate action it has 
taken numerous times before:  block NE2.


>there is a precedent.
>mk408. He was active mainly in one area only. after some edit war 
>and unwilling to discuss with others he got blocked by DWG and then 
>left for good.
>On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Michal Migurski 
><<mailto:mike at teczno.com>mike at teczno.com> wrote:
>I don't agree. NE2's edits, most of all the route relations, are 
>enormously valuable to OSM in the US. I'm not aware of any precedent 
>for banning a user like this, and I'm not eager to see one set.
>michal migurski <http://mike.teczno.com>http://mike.teczno.com
>On Feb 9, 2013, at 9:30 PM, stevea 
><<mailto:steveaOSM at softworkers.com>steveaOSM at softworkers.com> wrote:
>>  Russ, I second your vote/motion, not that anybody called for a 
>>second, or even that I am able to offer it. What I AM able to do is 
>>"be civil" and "use the talk-us list, as it is our nationwide forum 
>>to discuss." There are plenty of other "consensus understandings" 
>>that might be loosely called "rules" which make up the fabric of 
>>OSM as a community. NE2 has again proven that he is either 
>>unwilling or unable to abide by those. Consequently, I think we 
>>should inform him that serious discussion of permanently banning 
>>him from OSM (this thread) is underway, and his behavior can either 
>>change for the better, or he can count on eventually being 
>>permanently banned. He has had plenty of opportunities to do so, 
>>and so I am not optimistic he will be around much longer. But if 
>>the community wants him, that can emerge as a consensus as well.
>>  His "better" (than nothing) edits are in a clear minority compared 
>>to the usual messes he makes. He DOES, for better or worse, stir 
>>controversy, which is why we discuss, which is part of the 
>>community. If, for that reason alone (that he is controversial), 
>>there are those who do not wish to ban him, speak up now, as you 
>>may (may) be able to make the case that we need somebody like him 
>>as an example of what to do with difficult contributors. I think it 
>>is unanimous that he is that, at least.
>  >
>>  I wouldn't miss him if he were gone, either.
>>  SteveA
>>  California
>>>  He's banned from (at least) this list. Consequently, you cannot expect
>>>  him to discuss this issue here.
>>>  We had a discussion of whether to ban him from editing in the past,
>>>  which never really got resolved. It just died out. Yes, he's done a
>>>  lot of editing, and yes, some of his edits have been fruitful, but no,
>>>  some of his edits have been less than helpful. I wouldn't miss him if
>>>  he were gone.
>>>  I vote, not that anybody called for a vote, to ask him to leave.
>  >> -russ
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