[Talk-us] US Bicycle Routes in KY, TN, AL, MS, and GA

Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org
Sun Mar 10 18:15:57 UTC 2013

Well, this begs the question a bit...what's the difference between chasing
down an estimated proposal and tagging it as such, and the extremely vague
PDF that's out there?  I'm thinking the tagging makes for a clearer
understanding on where the route might go, and I believe adding the
appropriate disclaimer to the proposed route would be a mitigating factor
on the "end run" concern.  I believe Richard at Sustrans is ultimately
driving the same point.

On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:27 AM, KerryIrons <irons54vortex at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> Paul,
> The challenge is between wanting to move the USBR process forward with a
> push from having a proposed route "out there" and the risk of push back
> when
> some official basically says "What the heck is this?"  We have had this
> exact experience in Michigan during the development (now official) of USBR
> 35 so it is not just a theoretical possibility.  The fine points of
> "proposed" are easily lost if someone suspects they are being left out of
> the loop or experiencing an end run.
> The way the process works is to develop a proposed route and then take it
> to
> the involved communities, counties, trail owners, and DOTs involved.  As we
> gain their concurrence those pieces of the route become firm and can be
> publicized to good purpose - this can push adjacent jurisdictions to get on
> board.  We finally got one road commission to agree to the route when one
> of
> their members said "Everyone else has approved.  What's our excuse?"  Much
> as we would like it otherwise, local politics are very much part of getting
> a USBR designated.
> We would like to harness the enthusiasm shown in putting these routes on
> to directly help with the designation process.  I became aware of these
> routes being on OSM when one of the advocates working within a state
> contacted ACA and said "What's going on here?"  We don't need that kind of
> confusion.  We have talked about the need for a user-friendly mapping
> technology through which we can easily develop and share proposed USBRs and
> have been using Google Maps for that.  Perhaps OSM is a better tool and
> that
> is why we would like to work with the OSM mapper community to sort that
> out.
> My outreach is not an attempt to be adversarial but rather to channel our
> efforts.  We are always short on resources and we don't want to see
> duplication of effort or confusion result from independent projects that
> are
> not in communication.
> Kerry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Johnson [mailto:baloo at ursamundi.org]
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:35 AM
> To: OpenStreetMap talk-us list
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US Bicycle Routes in KY, TN, AL, MS, and GA
> What I mean to say is these were likely mapped with the understanding that
> these routes are subject to change before they're official and on the
> ground.  The ones I've come across have been tagged as such.  While I
> understand your concern, I believe you may be putting too much weight into
> the significance.  I encourage ACA to work with OSM to get such routes
> mapped on the preferred corridor with a note that these routes can and
> likely will move up to 50 miles either way in their final form.  Doing so
> can be useful for providing visualization and mustering support for such
> routes on a much more concise and clear scale than previously available.
>  It
> may be unwise to take quite such an adversarial approach for an effort that
> appears to have complementary goals.
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 5:30 PM, KerryIrons <irons54vortex at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> Paul,
> The process for proposing a US Bicycle Route is well defined.  It does not
> consist of people simply putting a route on a public map system like
> OpenStreetMaps/OpenCycleMaps.  There are local road agency approvals
> required and there is a risk of significant backlash when these agencies
> perceive that routes are being proposed without their involvement.  The
> routes as they appear on OpenStreetMaps/OpenCycleMaps are not approximate
> but rather are on specific state and local roads.
> I have been contacted by the person who put these routes into OpenSteetMaps
> and will sort things out with him.
> Kerry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Johnson [mailto:baloo at ursamundi.org]
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 3:19 PM
> Cc: OpenStreetMap talk-us list
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US Bicycle Routes in KY, TN, AL, MS, and GA
> If it's showing up with an "under construction" or "proposed" status, it's
> subject to change and there for approximate visualization in those cases.
>  If you'd like to propose a better way to handle that situation, I'm sure
> the folks involved would love to hear it!
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:48 PM, KerryIrons <irons54vortex at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> All,
> I am heavily involved in the development of US Bicycle Routes (see
> www.adventurecycling.org/usbrs) and it has come to my attention that
> OpenStreetMap/OpenCycleMap have proposed maps for US Bicycle Routes 21, 25,
> 80, and 84 in KY, TN, AL, MS, and GA.  The routes are shown as dashed lines
> but with the USBR numbers on them.  At the same time USBR 76 is shown as
> proposed but in fact it has officially been designated in KY.
> As of now there are only proposed corridors for these routes (50 mile wide
> areas where a route could be developed) and so showing specific proposed
> routes is beyond the current status of any of these USBRs.  It could be
> argued that USBR 25 will likely follow the Adventure Cycling Underground
> Railroad route but none of the states involved have applied for designation
> of these routes with AASHTO, the official body in charge of the USBR
> system.
> I would like to get in contact with the mapper(s) who put these routes into
> OpenStreetMap/OpenCycleMap and clarify this.   We are always looking for
> enthusiastic folks who want to work on the USBR system but in this case
> putting detailed routes on maps is a source of confusion.
> Please contact me at your convenience if you have been involved in putting
> these routes into OpenStreetMap/OpenCycleMap.
> Kerry Irons
> Adventure Cycling Association
> kirons at adventurecycling.org
> 989-631-6368
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
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