[Talk-us] Dirt Roads (formerly: Abandoned railway)

Greg Morgan dr.kludge.gm at gmail.com
Fri Sep 5 05:25:09 UTC 2014

Here's my concern with the discussion. After 6.5 hours of driving for 129
mile round trip, you can type in "13030 east crown king road" and find a
valid location along a dirt road.  There are posted speed limits, mile
markers, two lanes of travel, addresses and the like.  I saw more traffic
on 9/1/2014 along the Crown King Road dirt road than when I recorded exit
1[1] on the way to Sheridan Wyoming on I 90 US 87 over two years ago. I
have pictures of a PT Cruiser, Chevy Malibu, and VW Jetta style cars.  The
14 miles up and back on this road is about 2/5 the way along Hadrian's
Wall[2].  I ran out of time to make it all the way to the end of the road
before I had to head back to Phoenix.  The data that I collected will keep
me busy for several weeks before I try to make back up to Cleator to
complete the road survey.

I am so sorry to hear about James Kim[3].  It sounds like he made some
costly tactical errors like not returning to the exit that was missed.
 Around here we have signs that say "Do Not Cross When Flooded".  For those
that decide to cross when flooded, then they get to pay a fine after being
rescued. It feels like the discussion is about fixing a routing problem
when in reality you would exclude people that want to make it to Cleator
Arizona or other recreational destinations.  The people at the Cleator Bar
and Yacht Club[4] would question your judgement that this a fictional place
or that is not a meaningful destination.  They even have phone service to
run your credit card tab, if you want to really get drunk at the bar.
Moreover, the entire Bob Marshall Wilderness[5][6] as a significant
destination is missing.  Applying a track to the Tiger way[7] would be the
wrong thing to do.

The Tiger census road data is vital to find people to count. In my
estimation all census map makers had to do was give a general idea where
you might look to find people to count.  The data didn't have to be that
precise to get boots on the ground for the mission at hand.  DaveHansen is
my hero because he has given me something to work with. I am just astounded
to hear someone from a country that is 73 miles wide[2] say that all these
remote areas are a fiction or you should fix this problem before another 10
years rolls around.  The scale is of work is vastly different.  I'd rather
have the tiger problem that we do have than an empty map!  The map is still
useful the way it is now.


[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/530799651
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim
[4] https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2503074765
[5] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25197152#map=9/47.8878/-112.5257
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Marshall_Wilderness
[7] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/301612957

On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Michael Patrick <geodesy99 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "A road is a motor vehicle travel way over 50 inches wide, unless
>> classified and managed as a trail. The II_ROAD_CORE table includes all of
>> the nationally required data fields representing road characteristics"
>> Complete metadata describing these attributes ( legal right to control or
>> regulate use of the route, Current physical state of being of the route
>> segment, Maintenance level , Surface type, etc. ) at
>> http://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/edw_resources/meta/S_USA.RoadCore_FS.xml -
>> this attribute set ('tags') collectively allows evaluation of aspects like
>> 'passability' for different types of vehicles etc.
> Judging by the HUGE number of slatposted (verticle, as opposed to
> horizontal) route numbers in this system, I'd say the vast majority of
> these are managed as a trail.  Albeit passable by something with decent
> ground clearance (most vehicles will have trouble; I had a Kia Sportage
> with a little over 8" of ground clearance and still managed to hit frame to
> ground more often than Carfax probably shows on these).
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