[Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes

Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org
Fri Jan 16 20:02:23 UTC 2015

I understand that there's a difference between signed and unsigned.  Oregon
has a similar situation with "routes" and "highways."  "Highways" don't get
signed, "routes" do.  Every state-owned right of way in Oregon has a
highway number and are in ODOT's inventory (including traversable beaches
of the Pacific Ocean, making these state highways).  Why not, off the top
of my head, tag North Gulph Road in Valley Forge with "ref:unsigned=PA

(As an aside, I found Pennsylvania's convention for the 4-digit state
highways confusing as it happens to collide with Oklahoma's idea of control
section markers, which are sometimes used by locals to identify roads
intersecting state highways as often these are easier to spot than the
names(!) and often make more sense (since the sections are usually serially
numbered along the road, similar to exit numbers in areas where these
aren't fixed to milestones or kilometer points) it actually took me a
couple days to realize that it wasn't identifying control sections but
miles along a state route not obvious to the layman).

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:35 PM, James Mast <rickmastfan67 at hotmail.com>

> Paul, if we went with PA instead of SR, people might think to move it back
> to the main 'ref' tag.  SR works here since they are 'primary' routes and
> the signs say 'SR' in them.  Kinda like Virginia with it's primary 'VA' and
> secondary 'SR' tags for it's two different shields, except PA doesn't have
> the problem with multiple types of shields.
> -James
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:52:34 -0600
> From: baloo at ursamundi.org
> To: rickmastfan67 at hotmail.com
> CC: talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
> I'm very much in favor of PA instead of SR for disambiguation purposes.
> On Jan 16, 2015 2:15 AM, "James Mast" <rickmastfan67 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have happened to notice (mostly in Eastern Pennsylvania) that some users
> have added these routes from the old 'name_*' tags and putting them in the
> 'ref=*' tags as "ref=SR1234".  The problem here is that Pennsylvania
> doesn't post these routes (except in little white mileage signs [1][2]
> or/and [just in rural areas normally] an occasional street blade) like the
> 'normal' state highways numbered 1-999 in the 'Keystone shields'.  Also the
> quadrant routes are duplicated all over the state in each county.  Thus, I
> don't think they would qualify for being added to the 'ref' tag on ways,
> but also don't truly count for the 'unsigned_ref' tag as well because they
> are posted in a way, just not really for the traveling public to see unless
> they were really looking for them.
> So, I've come up with a possible replacement tag of 'ref:penndot=SR ****'
> [3] for these routes that are only signed with the white mileage signs.
> With this tag, it still allows the quadrant routes to be added, but not to
> take up the normal 'ref' tag when it's needed for another route (there are
> a few normal state routes on quadrant routes, like PA-3 for a small area in
> Philadelphia, or US-19 Truck in Pittsburgh, or even the Allegheny County
> Belt System [3] in some areas).
> What do you guys think about this?  If nobody has any problems with them,
> I think we should fix them as we see them (no bot running unless somebody
> with knowing how to run one would be willing to do it).  I just want to see
> a constant tagging scheme for them.
> -James
> [1] - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State_Routes_in_Pennsylvania>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State_Routes_in_Pennsylvania
> [2] - http://goo.gl/maps/NdVrn
> [3] - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/311525727
> [4] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_County_belt_system
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