[Talk-us] Deleting / Closing / Renaming all places in a chain

[Elliott Plack]

I ran some queries on Overpass Turbo. There are only 15 POIs that match
some variant of ITT Tech in the USA. Here's the full list:
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9a8770998bacbb7bc7ba81f93eca618d . Here
is the query: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/igB

While it is important to be critical of automated edits, I don't agree that
the community should prefer an outdated map to inspire new mappers.
Following that logic, I should just quit OSM altogether so that the local
map will go stale and others will pick it up, right? No, of course not. We
should be editing what we know or can reasonably assume is there based on
information, and then others can fill in the gaps as they find them.


On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:41 AM Brian Stromberg <brian.stromberg at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Automated nationwide mapping seems like it would introduce more problems
> than it would solve. If maps are intended to represent the truth on the
> ground, then the only way to create a useful map is by reporting what is
> actually there rather than making assumptions. A map that is inaccurate
> because it is outdated is better than a map that is inaccurate because of a
> flawed process.
>
> Also, first time participating in these conversations, so I am pressing
> "send" with great trepidation...
>
> --
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Greg Morgan <dr.kludge.gm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 09/06/2016 11:01 PM, Elliott Plack wrote:
>>> > Should we launch an automated edit, or some kind of batch process on
>>> OSM
>>> > to clear the database `name=ITT Tech` (or similar) worldwide?
>>>
>>
>> For one I had to go looking for the story.
>> http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/us-world-news/202562451-story
>> The for-profit college chain ITT Technical Institute is shutting down all
>> 130 of its U.S. campuses, saying Tuesday it can't survive recent sanctions
>> by the U.S. Department of Education...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This is a discussion that has happened in the past when Domino's Pizza
>>> has rebranded, or when the "Schlecker" drug store chain closed in
>>> Germany.
>>>
>>> I think automated edits are not a good solution mainly for two reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. In many cases, the world doesn't change instantly at the behest of
>>> some guy in marketing or legal. Individual locations might retain their
>>> signage for various reasons and we map what's on the ground,
>>>
>>
>> Not around here.  They pop out the plastic and replace it with the new
>> company's name.  If it takes awhile for a new company to replace the old
>> company, then they flip the plastic over to save costs.  This isn't like
>> the days when bespoke signs were created for every business.
>> http://mapillary.com/map/im/LCodN7YJMEPKKlRnf2eLxw
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2. If a chain is renamed or closed country-wide, and this change is not
>>> reflected on OSM in one area, then this can be a valuable sign for lack
>>> of mapper attention. A sign that has the best user interface of all:
>>> Because for any map user, dealing with an outdated map is normal, and
>>> the way you identify just *how* outdated something is is exactly by
>>> looking at such things: "Ah, this map seems to be from a time then
>>> Domino's was still called Domino's Pizza!" - Leaving these valuable
>>> markers of outdated-ness in place tells the map user that this area
>>> hasn't been touched for a while and that the other POIs in the vicinity
>>> are likely also a bit aged. When a local mapper touches up the area they
>>> will likely also update other things than just the closed-down shop, and
>>> then the map will be current again. Automatically editing away something
>>> country-wide hides the fact that the map lacks attention in an area.
>>
>>
>> Frederik you are thinking about this from a dense mapper perspective.
>> Germany has 89 million people in the same are as Montana that only has one
>> million people.  You are talking about one way to map if you have that
>> kind-of population that you can create a large mapper population from.  I
>> already know much of my area needs updating.  The problem is that I cannot
>> get to it and the transient nature of the area doesn't mean that I can go
>> out and build an OSM community here.  Automated edits like this by another
>> mapper would be a great addition to the work I already do in an area.  As
>> another perspective, I typically don't put in POIs like this unless I visit
>> them.  My area was one of the ground zeros for the sub-prime rate debacle.
>> I'll put in an address on a building before I will put in a POI.  Business
>> just don't stay around like they used to. I laugh snort when I read that
>> wiki page about armchair mapping.  I am in the top 50 worldwide Mapillary
>> submissions.  You think I can go out there and survey every node before I
>> put it in OSM. That's jsut not going to happen. You think that I even know
>> about changes like the ITT story.
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=33.263809986326706&lng=-111.81125590160123&z=8.272711628984965
>>  Woot! Woot!
>>
>> Elliot, I'd say go for the change.  You are only going to __potentially__
>> remove 130 names from OSM objects.  Better yet, rename the name to a note
>> tag, with an explanation that the place was shutdown because of sanctions.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Elliott Plack
http://elliottplack.me
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