[Talk-us] Name tag on unnamed, but numbered routes

[Clay Smalley]

On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 8:27 PM Minh Nguyen <minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us>
wrote:

> In Indiana and Ohio counties where the terrain allows for an
> uninterrupted countywide street grid, the county-maintained roads are
> have county *road* numbers instead of numbered county *route* numbers. A
> "South County Road 600 East" or "South 600 East" would have more in
> common with an "East 8th Street" in town than a "County Route 600" in a
> neighboring county with a route system. Just as some cities number their
> north-south streets and letter their east-west streets, some counties
> letter their east-west street too. Some counties have both a numbered
> road grid and a numbered route network.
>
> In the past, I was unaware of this distinction and tended to tag them
> all as routes, but in hindsight, that misconception led me to invent way
> refs like "CR 600 E" that were nothing more than abbreviations of street
> names in reality, akin to "E 8th St". [1] Rather than add them to
> relations, I need to go back and delete these refs.
>
> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/17554398


Let's use two Indiana counties as an example here.

Kosciusko County uses the system favored by a majority of counties in
Indiana, where grid-based roads are variably signed like "CR 600 E" or
simply "600 E". When the grid-based roads pass through incorporated towns,
or happen to travel along a US or state road, they lose their grid-based
name. Blaine Street in North Webster [1] would otherwise be County Road 750
East if it were in an unincorporated area. Likewise, State Road 14 [2]
would be County Road 1100 South if it weren't state-maintained. Considering
the way these road designations freely start and stop, I think it makes
sense to remove the ref tags and relations that I added a few months ago.

Elkhart County's system is a microcosm of the way Interstate, US and
Indiana roads are numbered, where odd numbers go North-South, evens go
East-West, and they increment in a certain direction. However, like other
Indiana counties, these actually indicate the road's position in a grid,
rather than designating continuous routes. In Elkhart County, road numbers
continue into incorporated municipalities, often being signed in a
double-barreled fashion, like Midway Road/CR 26 [3]. These cases are
unclear to me - do ref tags and route relations belong on roads in counties
like Elkhart?

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/297829745
[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/17405029
[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/17326445

On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 8:27 PM Minh Nguyen <minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us>
wrote:

> Vào lúc 16:06 2021-11-20, Paul Johnson đã viết:
> > On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 10:32 PM Minh Nguyen
> > <minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
> > <mailto:minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us>> wrote:
> >
> >     If we do expand this discussion globally, we're going to have a talk
> >     about how it's possible to drive westbound on "East County Road 00
> >     North
> >     South" (not to be confused with ref=US 35;SR 22). [1]
> >
> >
> > So, County Road 00 (using our Nebrahoma example again) in Corn County,
> > Nebrahoma, Federated States (which conveniently uses US tagging
> > conventions) would get a road route relation in network FS:NA:Corn with
> > a ref of 00.   noname=yes applies on the way, and ref would be US 35;NA
> > 22;CR 00 (something I hope we can make optional and sunset in the future
> > since the ref doesn't describe the way at all but the route that the way
> > is a member of)
>
> You're conflating road names and route numbers. ;-) I've seen county
> routes that you've tagged this way in Oklahoma and I don't question its
> correctness, but the example I gave in Indiana would not be tagged as a
> county route.
>
> In Indiana and Ohio counties where the terrain allows for an
> uninterrupted countywide street grid, the county-maintained roads are
> have county *road* numbers instead of numbered county *route* numbers. A
> "South County Road 600 East" or "South 600 East" would have more in
> common with an "East 8th Street" in town than a "County Route 600" in a
> neighboring county with a route system. Just as some cities number their
> north-south streets and letter their east-west streets, some counties
> letter their east-west street too. Some counties have both a numbered
> road grid and a numbered route network.
>
> In the past, I was unaware of this distinction and tended to tag them
> all as routes, but in hindsight, that misconception led me to invent way
> refs like "CR 600 E" that were nothing more than abbreviations of street
> names in reality, akin to "E 8th St". [1] Rather than add them to
> relations, I need to go back and delete these refs.
>
> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/17554398
>
> --
> minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
>
>
>
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> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
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