[Talk-us] US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
stevea
steveaOSM at softworkers.com
Sat Oct 16 22:19:39 UTC 2021
I have had run-ins (conflicts, changeset discussions, personal missives...) with Fluffy89502 for years and years (and years).
His reasoning for his often MASSIVELY-sized edits (whether to highway classifications or landuse tagging, often which are hundreds of square miles or thousands of square kilometers) are either wholly nonsensical bizarre explanations, or (like more recently) my missives to him go completely unanswered. Especially for his massive landuse changes in California, CLEARLY vandalism or "look at the HUGE areas that _I_ have mapped!), I have reverted tens of thousands of square kilometers / miles of his utter trashing of data which simply do not make logical mapping sense where he edits.
This bad actor in OSM has been warned and warned and warned. He has been redacted and redacted and redacted. He has been blocked as he receives DWG complaints and attention. I, for one, and I suspect I am not alone, find edits by this user to be so detrimental to the continuing benefit of OSM that I consider every single edit he performs to be suspect, if not vandalism (where his actions can be said to be deliberate based on how often he ignores communication from other Contributors). He either pretends to listen to complaints about his edits (at first), he maybe blusters some incomprehensible babble about why his editing is "superior," he doesn't even pretend to want to learn better mapping skills, then he simply blows everybody off. This is unacceptable OSM behavior.
If this user and subsequent actions (again and again and again) aren't a textbook case for banning a user (something OSM actually does given repeated acts of abuse and vandalism), I don't know what is. (Frederik, SomeoneElse and other "wearing your DWG hats" people, no need to actually answer that, it is rhetorical — I know you perform enough drudgery cleaning up after these mess-makers, so no need to justify your heroic efforts).
I say, "Bye, Fluffy89502: you've annoyed too many with too much too often. And, good riddance, too."
SteveA
> On Oct 16, 2021, at 2:51 PM, talk-us-request at openstreetmap.org wrote:
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> 1. US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502 (Frederik Ramm)
> 2. Re: US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> (Brian M. Sperlongano)
> 3. Re: US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> (Zeke Farwell)
> 4. Re: US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> (Zeke Farwell)
> 5. Re: US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> (John A. Leuenhagen)
>
> From: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
> Subject: [Talk-us] US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> Date: October 16, 2021 at 9:46:03 AM PDT
> To: "talk-us at openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap" <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> the DWG has received a complaint about recent highway reclassifications by user https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fluffy89502 - these seem to affect various states; there's no rationale given about the reclassifcations, and comments from different users remain unanswered.
>
> Could I have an assessment from the community about this? Wholesale revert? User block and request to engage with critical voices? ...?
>
> The user has been blocked for similar activities last year, and been asked to be more responsive to changeset comments.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Brian M. Sperlongano" <zelonewolf at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> Date: October 16, 2021 at 10:14:03 AM PDT
> To: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
> Cc: "talk-us at openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap" <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
>
>
> As you know, the question of highway classification is an item of significant debate in the US mapping community. There are near-daily conversations on what the standards should be and users in fourteen states have drafted wiki guidelines on how the road classifications should be applied. We have tried to draw in as many people as possible into the conversation, both in multiple threads here and of course in Slack. In this context, there is a fair amount of frustration with this particular user who typically makes unilateral edits and only rarely responds to changeset comments or other attempts at communications. You might note a thread in this mailing list from last year where this was brought up before:
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2020-September/020714.html
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 12:52 PM Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the DWG has received a complaint about recent highway reclassifications
> by user https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fluffy89502 - these seem to
> affect various states; there's no rationale given about the
> reclassifcations, and comments from different users remain unanswered.
>
> Could I have an assessment from the community about this? Wholesale
> revert? User block and request to engage with critical voices? ...?
>
> The user has been blocked for similar activities last year, and been
> asked to be more responsive to changeset comments.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
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>
>
> From: Zeke Farwell <ezekielf at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> Date: October 16, 2021 at 10:15:08 AM PDT
> To: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
> Cc: "talk-us at openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap" <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
>
>
> I'm not familiar enough with the areas where this user has been re-classifying to judge whether a wholesale revert would be appropriate. However, this user has come up before as problematic and uncommunicative. I sent them a message earlier this year and didn't receive a reply for months. The vast majority of changeset commentents others leave are never replied to. I'd say a block is entirely warranted on that basis alone.
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=10165657
>
> --
> Zeke Farwell
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 12:52 PM Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the DWG has received a complaint about recent highway reclassifications
> by user https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fluffy89502 - these seem to
> affect various states; there's no rationale given about the
> reclassifcations, and comments from different users remain unanswered.
>
> Could I have an assessment from the community about this? Wholesale
> revert? User block and request to engage with critical voices? ...?
>
> The user has been blocked for similar activities last year, and been
> asked to be more responsive to changeset comments.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> From: Zeke Farwell <ezekielf at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> Date: October 16, 2021 at 11:07:39 AM PDT
> To: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>, "talk-us at openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap" <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
>
>
> It is also worth noting that Fluffy's lack of communication with other mappers is not limited to the United States. For example here are two changesets that were clearly not well received by the local communities in Germany and Denmark:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/90225929
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/96220099
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 1:19 PM Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf at gmail.com> wrote:
> As you know, the question of highway classification is an item of significant debate in the US mapping community. There are near-daily conversations on what the standards should be and users in fourteen states have drafted wiki guidelines on how the road classifications should be applied. We have tried to draw in as many people as possible into the conversation, both in multiple threads here and of course in Slack. In this context, there is a fair amount of frustration with this particular user who typically makes unilateral edits and only rarely responds to changeset comments or other attempts at communications. You might note a thread in this mailing list from last year where this was brought up before:
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2020-September/020714.html
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 12:52 PM Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the DWG has received a complaint about recent highway reclassifications
> by user https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fluffy89502 - these seem to
> affect various states; there's no rationale given about the
> reclassifcations, and comments from different users remain unanswered.
>
> Could I have an assessment from the community about this? Wholesale
> revert? User block and request to engage with critical voices? ...?
>
> The user has been blocked for similar activities last year, and been
> asked to be more responsive to changeset comments.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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>
> From: "John A. Leuenhagen" <john+osm+talk-us at zlima12.com>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US-wide highway reclassifications by Fluffy89502
> Date: October 16, 2021 at 12:06:09 PM PDT
> To: talk-us at openstreetmap.org
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 06:46:03PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> the DWG has received a complaint about recent highway reclassifications by
>> user https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fluffy89502 - these seem to affect
>> various states; there's no rationale given about the reclassifcations, and
>> comments from different users remain unanswered.
>
> I've noticed this as well, especially in the southern New York State
> region. I've left a comment on every changeset in my area that is
> questionable, and have not yet received a response. I additionally sent
> a message to the user suggesting that they join the OSMUS Slack, to
> which I also have not received a response.
>
>> Could I have an assessment from the community about this? Wholesale revert?
>> User block and request to engage with critical voices? ...?
>
> I have already reverted the changesets made by the user in areas I know
> well. The user has made some legitimate changes, such as downgrading
> short segments of trunk or motorway that really shouldn't be classified
> as such. I think it's worth looking at each changeset individually, and
> only reverting those that are questionable.
>
> I was planning on requesting a 0 hour block if the user made another
> changeset without responding to my communications, but it's been over a
> week now, so maybe we should just go through with the block. I phrased
> my message more as an offer to join the conversation, but I think it's
> warranted to actually require them to talk with the community. That
> should be reflected in the message for the block.
>
>> The user has been blocked for similar activities last year, and been asked
>> to be more responsive to changeset comments.
>
> This is worth reminding the user about, along with noting that they'll
> receive a harsher punishment if they keep making these edits while
> ignoring us.
>
>
>
>
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