[Talk-us] [bot] Proposal to fix issue with duplicated inner polygons in the United States
Andy Townsend
ajt1047 at gmail.com
Mon Feb 21 11:55:38 UTC 2022
Hi everyone,
First - a caveat - I've never been to Louisiana, and much of this email
is based on tidying up some similar issues in New Jersey at the weekend
(at https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/117636871 and following).
However, the "duplicate inner polygon" issue was very much present there.
The biggest import issues (apart from the actual "golf fixing" that I
was trying to do) that I had wasn't "duplicate inner polygons" (in any
editor it's easy to move them together), they were instead:
* In some cases the landuse imports no longer represented reality (a
recreation ground that wasn't; woods that had been completely been
remodeled for a golf course)
* In other cases it looked like the import misclassified what was not
normally or not currently wetland as "wetland" in OSM - I couldn't
see any break in the trees. Maybe the "wetland" areas just had some
sort of legal protection on them or some sort of flood risk?
* Some of the relations involved were very, very silly.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5884686 for example is
clearly NOT one feature, and (as noted previously) not, or at least
not always, marsh.
Given all that, duplicate inner polygons is the last problem that I'd
worry about here.
All that said, LA is clearly not NJ, and wetland areas on the coast are
much more likely to be actual wetland. Also some areas of LA (at
random, https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/29.4707/-89.9440 ) clearly
have been tidied up, mostly match the available imagery, and the
available imagery sources mostly agree amongst themselves.
Can you publish a list of issues in addition to the count on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/TTmechanicalupdates/Fix_issue_with_duplicated_inner_polygons_in_United_States
so that people can assess what you are actually trying to "fix"? That
way, people will be able to see whether you'd just be changing "easily
detectable broken data" into "less easily detectable broken data, or
actually doing anything worthwhile.
Best Regards,
Andy
On 21/02/2022 11:10, TomTom OSM wrote:
>
> Hello everyone!
>
> Let us know if you have any more feedback.
>
> If there are no more suggestions from your side, we will happily start
> the test run in the state of Louisiana as originally planned. After
> this, you’ll be able to take a look at all the changesets and see the
> outcome of our automated action. We will also keep you updated on the
> progress of our actions in this thread.
>
> We are ready to start on Thursday 2/24/2022. Does this timing work for
> you?
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
> Marjan
>
> *From:*Eric Ladner <eric.ladner at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2022 5:06 PM
> *To:* Eric Patrick <txemt1 at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* TomTom OSM <OSM at tomtom.com>; Minh Nguyen
> <minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us>; talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-us] [bot] Proposal to fix issue with duplicated
> inner polygons in the United States
>
>
>
>
> You don't often get email from eric.ladner at gmail.com. Learn why this
> is important <http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
>
>
>
> It's a daunting task to update thousands of miles of coastline, bays,
> rivers, etc., after a weather event, esp. when the satellite imagery
> lags by months or years.
>
> Probably a "best-effort" thing.
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 7:17 PM Eric Patrick <txemt1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Will these be updated after every hurricane comes through and
> changes the coastline?
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 2:24 PM Eric Ladner
> <eric.ladner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Having experience with editing some of the Lousiana coastal
> areas, it's several failed, incomplete, and possibly
> overlapping NHD imports with a mess of invalid multi-polygons,
> unclosed features, and any other error you can think of.
>
> I would recommend against turning the bot loose on that
> geometry until simpler test cases are attempted.
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 5:20 AM TomTom OSM <OSM at tomtom.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Minh,
>
> Thank you for your kind words, and valuable feedback!
>
> I passed your suggestions to my team. They will take a
> closer look at them, and I'll get back with more details
> in a while.
>
> Kind regards,
> Marjan
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Minh Nguyen <minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us>
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 6:58 PM
> To: talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [bot] Proposal to fix issue with
> duplicated inner polygons in the United States
>
> [You don't often get email from
> minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us. Learn why this is important
> at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification.]
>
> Vào lúc 04:25 2022-02-08, TomTom OSM đã viết:
> > We propose to do a test run by updating invalid polygons
> in the
> > Louisiana state, where 5,541 cases are logged by the
> Osmose rule. Per
> > the Automated Edits code of conduct, we will wait for
> your feedback
> > before we begin.
>
> Hi Marjan, at a glance, it looks like many of the issues
> involve multipolygons imported from NHD, since Louisiana
> has a very complex coastline and system of bayous. [1][2]
> I think many of us would welcome help cleaning up old NHD
> imports, particularly regarding topology issues.
>
> If you later move on to other states, you may need to pay
> additional attention to occurrences of this warning that
> don't only involve natural multipolygons. For example,
> it's possible that a natural feature might be coincident
> to an enclave of a boundary relation. I'm unsure if
> mappers would prefer the boundary relation to be conflated
> with the natural feature or kept separate from it.
>
> [1]
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