[OSM-talk] Deprecation/move of incorrect tags
Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk
Tue Jul 17 08:20:35 BST 2007
Alex Mauer wrote:
>Sent: 16 July 2007 11:34 PM
>To: talk at openstreetmap.org
>Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Deprecation/move of incorrect tags
>Stephen Gower wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 08:11:33PM -0500, Alex Mauer wrote:
>>> This is a lot to respond to, but:
>>> I understand highway to be synonymous with right of way, yes. If
>>> something is a "highway" that says nothing about what standard it is
>>> built and maintained to: how and to what extent that highway is built
>>> and maintained is a function of what *kind* of highway it is. So yes,
>>> primary and secondary would each be maintained to a certain standard.
>> OK. I'm arguing for a distinction between (what I currently tag as)
>> "highway=cycleway; foot=yes" and "highway=footway; cycle=yes". I'm
>> also arguing for, in general, keeping the status quo, unless
>> there's a good reason for changing. For me, most good reasons for
>> change could be grouped into "it doesn't work", "it breaks
>> something at the moment" or "it prevents some important new feature
>> being implemented". As far as I can tell, there is no good reason
>> for going through the pain of changing, and there is no current
>> proposal that maintains the distinction of what *kind* of path this
>The reason I have is that there is currently no way to have a path that
>*isn't* primarily a footway, cycleway, or cycleway. A ski trail would
>be a good example of this, which I actually have in my area; The path(s)
>in question is not allowed to be used other than for skiing, (in winter)
>presumably to prevent or reduce erosion.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/WikiProject_Piste_Maps for details
of how people have previously made piste maps
>>> When I said that "highway" implies automotive traffic, I meant that in
>>> the context of OSM: the tag is very much oriented towards motor vehicle
>>> traffic. [...]
>> It is? Not the way I look at it!
>Count the number of highway values that are for motor vehicle traffic.
>I count 12.
>Now count the number for non-motor-vehicle traffiic. I count 3, maybe 4
>if you count "pedestrian".
>Looks pretty motor-vehicle oriented to me.
>> Cyclepaths in the UK *and
>> other parts of Europe* (at least) are different from
>> footpaths-with-permission-to-cycle and there needs to be a way of
>> showing what kind of path it is.
>Yes, but it also requires that you decide what kind of path it is, and
>that the path *be* one of those three kinds of paths. There is
>currently no way to tag a path that is equally a foot path and a cycle
>path, and all the more so no way to tag it, if it doesn't meet the
>standards of the UK term "bridleway", "footway", or "cycle track"
>Again, I'd like to point out that OSM is *international* and trying to
>force routes of the entire world into the UK's legal system is simply a
>waste of effort.
>> Oh, I hadn't looked at the detail of this before and now I do, I
>> see "route" is not the place for this! "route" is, as Map_Features
>> currently says, non-physical. It represents a journey - it's a
>> collection of highways (and parts of highways) that make up the
>> course travelled. A numbered bus or cycle route does not sit well
>> with a single anonymous passageway. If I saw route=path, I's
>> assume it was a long(ish) distance walk, like The Thames Path or
>> The E9 European Coastal Path - probably what in the US is called a
>To me, "route" means any sort of linear thing that can be travelled,
>covering roads, paths, etc. (The dictionary backs this up much more
>than it backs up an entire network of [generic term other than route
>which covers roads, paths, etc.] being a "route". Wordnet does include
>"itinerary" as a synonym, but that's the closest it gets that I could
>I have a proposal "network" to cover the named network of [generic term
>other than route which covers roads, paths, etc.] that you're using
>route to mean.
>Also, if route is restricted to non-physical things, "ski" needs to be
>removed from that list -- and there's currently no suitable replacement.
>-Alex Mauer "hawke"
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