[OSM-talk] Potlatch :-)

[Richard Fairhurst]

Karl Eichwalder wrote:

> Ein Potlatch-User hat nun die halbe Rosenau (Nürnberg) entsorgt :-(
> Solange das Tool nicht funktioniert, sollte man es abschalten.
>
> But if you think the loss of data is fine, I'd probably better stop
> entering new data.  Please, disable Potlatch for the time being.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.45078&lon=11.06507&zoom=16&layers=B0F

Sorry, but I'm getting fed up with this.

Firstly, please at least have the courtesy of writing in English on an  
English-speaking list, given that you clearly can. For those who, like  
me, don't speak German, here's Google's translation:

> A Potlatch-User now has half Rosenau  (Nuremberg) disposed :-( As  
> long as the tool does not work, you should be Off.

In July, I began discussing publicly how to build an undo feature:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:lists.openstreetmap.org+potlatch+undo

On 14 September, I added a 'practice' mode to Potlatch which lets new  
users experiment without writing to the db:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Potlatch/Changelog

A fortnight ago, after a lot of work, I added undelete/revert  
functionality to Potlatch:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2007-November/007919.html

As it says in the original mail, the functionality was temporarily  
disabled on the main OSM server in the hope of some peer review:  
"because this is new ground for OSM, I'd appreciate it if people could  
test it on their local installs".

How many whingers like you have taken five minutes to test it and mail  
me your results? Answer: 0. That is the sole, the only reason why  
there is no undo yet. And I don't see you committing any undo feature  
to the standard API or your beloved JOSM.

Four weeks ago, I warned that Potlatch was going to stop accepting  
anonymous edits:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/019356.html

and committed that change, as advertised, this Tuesday:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-November/020068.html

Now, if someone messes up, you can contact them using the superb  
messaging tools we have.

So what is there about Potlatch which magically causes it to delete  
lots of OSM data?

Absolutely nothing. There is no hidden "DELETE FROM  
current_nodes,users WHERE current_nodes.user_id=users.id AND  
users.display_name='Karl Eichwalder'" (although I'm open to patches).  
The reason it happens with Potlatch rather than JOSM is that Potlatch  
is a largely approachable, easy-to-use online editor, so it's what the  
newbies use. If the online Java applet were still in use, or if JOSM  
were suddenly made into an online applet, we would have the same or  
comparable issues.

I will take criticism from Tom H, from Steve C, from Frederik, from  
any of the countless people who have spent countless hours hauling the  
OSM codebase into the fantastic state it's in right now. I will take  
criticism from people like Andy R who may not be programmers but who  
have engaged wholeheartedly with the direction of the project and its  
tools, from people like Etienne and David Earl who have started  
fantastic side-projects like Osmarender and the name finder which we  
now couldn't do without, from people like Harry Wood who have done the  
unglamorous but much-needed job of tackling the documentation issue on  
the wiki. Potlatch has got a lot better thanks to their engagement and  
suggestions. But I will not take criticism - that's flattering it:  
"whingeing" would be better - from people like you who just sit on the  
sidelines and criticise others' hard work.

Are you going to stop entering new data? I, personally, don't care.  
But I would appreciate it if you'd stop entering shite into your  
mailer and posting it to the OSM lists.

Smiley changed, because Potlatch makes me, and many others, happy.

Richard