[OSM-talk] Bus Stops

Thu Apr 24 09:28:04 BST 2008

Jeffrey Martin wrote:
>Sent: 24 April 2008 9:06 AM
>To: Peter Miller
>Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Bus Stops
>
>Some people advocate nodes off to the side of the way
>to represent the location of the pole or shelter in relation
>to the road.
>
>Near where I live (Korea) there is often a shelter on
>one side of the road for buses going both directions.
>In that case I'm guessing I would put a shelter node
>on one side of the road and a node that is not a shelter
>on the other side.
>
>How do I relate these nodes to the way? I don't
>like the idea of short segments perpendicular to
>the way.

Because a bus stop is a highway feature it really in my view should be part
of it. And because we map what we see on the ground then logically if there
are two bus stops not quite opposite each other then I place two nodes, one
for each and tag them appropriately. Placing short links from a bus stop
node placed off the highway to the highway itself is I guess fine if those
links are tagged as highway=footway, but personally I think that's a lot of
unnecessary effort and complexity in the map.

The remaining issue revolves around the direction of the bus at a particular
node. I didn't have an answer to this until I looked at what the signage was
on my local bust stops. Now I find it easy to tag because each one tells me
in which direction the bus is travelling (eg "towards Birmingham"). So I add
a towards= tag and jobs a good un. I'm not going to worry at the moment
about how I might use this tag to make bus route information, the important
aspect is that the data that's needed to work that out later is in the
database.

For those interested, my Birmingham orientated bus stop mapping consists of
the following tags placed on highway nodes (one for each physical stop).

highway=bus_stop
route_ref=12|255|904|905
location=Lichfield Road, Bakers Lane
towards=Shenstone
shelter=true
ref=053460 (This is the numbered reference of that bus stop. each one has a
different number, even when there are two opposite each other at the same
point along the highway)

Cheers

Andy

>
>
>On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:45 AM, Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>	The EU standard Transmodel defines a Stop Point as 'A POINT where
>passengers
>	can board or alight from vehicles'. For bus stops this means a
single
>pole,
>	shelter etc and for a place where there are three poles for
different
>	services close together then there would be three entries.
>
>	There are also places where buses stop where there is no physical
>	infrastructure but where buses stop which also need Stop Points. In
>rural
>	areas there might be a pole on one side of the road but buses stop
in
>both
>	directions, or in some places there is not infrastructure on either
>side of
>	the road.
>
>	For there are a number of Stop Points close to each other then these
>can be
>	grouped into Stop Areas that are 'A group of STOP POINTs close to
>each
>	other'. I suggest that we achieve this with a relationship call a
>'Stop
>	Area' is people are keen to model it.
>
>	For railway stations it can get more complicated as a platform can
be
>made
>	up of sub platforms (long trains stop at platform 4 and two short
>ones can
>	stop at 4A and 4B etc). In this case I believe there should be a
Stop
>Point
>	for 4, 4A and 4B.
>	http://www.transmodel.org/en/transmodel/gloss/s.htm
>
>	This interpretation is now being discussed as ISO level so is
>probably the
>	one to go with.
>
>	Are we agreed that this is the appropriate interpretation for the
>feature
>	going forward. In which case shall I add this clarification and
>	interpretation to the relevant OSM tag page?
>
>	Btw, Someone might like to ask the DfT in the UK at some point for a
>copy of
>	the DB they have with the location of over 350,000 bus stops with
>their
>	names and the name of the associated street. I know the people but
it
>might
>	be better if it came from someone else, possibly from the
foundation?
>
>
>
>	Regards,
>
>
>
>
>	Peter
>
>
>	> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:03:14 +0900
>	> From: "Jeffrey Martin" <dogshed at gmail.com>
>	> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Bus Stops
>	> To: "Mike Collinson" <mike at ayeltd.biz>
>	> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
>	> Message-ID:
>	>
<bf60a2e10804230403l68fefd86s3f9478b3f674cf30 at mail.gmail.com>
>	> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>	>
>	> How am I supposed to do bus stops?
>	> If two bus stops are on opposite sides of the road then I think
>maybe they
>	> can share a node?
>	>
>	> I found in some email that you can make little short service
links.
>I
>	> don't
>	> like that. The bus
>	> pulls over to the side of the road where I'm at.
>	>
>	> Sometimes they aren't exactly across the street from each other.
>	>
>	> Where I'm at there are lots of wood and concrete bus shelters.
>	>
>	> On Sun, Aug 12, 2007 at 12:07 AM, Mike Collinson <mike at ayeltd.biz>
>wrote:
>	>
>	> >  Excellent background information for basing our models. Thank
>you
>	> Peter.
>	> >
>	> > Mike
>	> >
>	> >
>	> > At 07:21 AM 11/08/2007, Peter Miller wrote:
>	> >
>	> > The conventional way of handling Bus Stops in the public
>transport
>	> > industry is to have a node for each individual point at which
one
>can
>	> get on
>	> > a vehicle, so if there are two bus stops on opposite sides of
the
>road
>	> then
>	> > they are represented as two nodes. If there are three bays in a
>row on
>	> one
>	> > side of the road then they are represented a 3 nodes in a row.
>Every Bus
>	> > Stop in the UK has a unique code, and this is sometimes printed
>on the
>	> bus
>	> > stop itself.
>	> >
>	> > In the EU standards they are called 'Stop Points' (rather than
>Bus
>	> Stops)
>	> > so they can cover buses, tram, rail, ferry planes etc.
>	> >
>	> > In railway stations there is a Stop Point for each Platform (and
>each
>	> bay
>	> > in a bus station, each Gate for an Airport and each quay in a
>Ferry
>	> > terminal).
>	> >
>	> > Groups of local Stop Points (as they are called) are then
>arranged into
>	> > Stop Areas where they are very close to each other.
>	> >
>	> > These Stop Points are not within the road layer because Stop
>Points are
>	> a
>	> > distinct dataset managed separately; they are then associated
>with a
>	> street,
>	> > sometimes using the Street Name and sometimes based on
proximity.
>	> >
>	> > I recommend that we use 'Bus Stop' and 'Stop Point' for this
low-
>level
>	> > purpose and construct entities as we need them.
>	> >
>	> > The database of all these points in the UK is called 'NaPTAN'
>(standing
>	> > for 'National Public Transport Access Nodes'), there are about
>350,000
>	> of
>	> > them, and keen people can find additional information here:
>	> > http://www.naptan.org.uk/
>	> >
>	> >
>	> > A new CEN standard is in the process of being ratified, called
>IFOPT
>	> which
>	> > can be used for describe much more complex transport
>interchanges, such
>	> as
>	> > major airports and railways stations, detailing every corridor,
>lift,
>	> > check-in desk escalator etc. CEN standards are used throughout
>the EU
>	> and
>	> > beyond.
>	> >  http://www.naptan.org.uk/ifopt/
>	> >
>	> >
>	> > There is also a modelling standard for public transport in
>general
>	> > published by CEN called transmodel which covers the modelling in
>general
>	> and
>	> > is used behind most professional transport products used in
>Europe.
>	> > www.transmodel.org
>	> >
>	> > Of course, I am not proposing that we 'implement' all of the
>above, but
>	> > where we choose modelling approaches and terms for entities it
>would be
>	> > sensible to choose the same names.
>	> >
>	> >
>	> > _______________________________________________
>	> > talk mailing list
>	> > talk at openstreetmap.org
>	> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>	> >
>	> >
>	>
>	>
>	> --
>	> http://bowlad.com
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