[OSM-talk] Maritme borders

D Tucny d at tucny.com
Wed Dec 31 13:38:58 GMT 2008

2008/12/31 Gustav Foseid <gustavf at gmail.com>

> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:26 PM, D Tucny <d at tucny.com> wrote:
>> I'm not exactly up on laws, rules, treaties and agreements etc regarding
>> borders and controls, but, is this not about politics? If Someone from,
>> using your example, Morocco, flies to the UK via Ireland, they also won't
>> need to go through imigration in Ireland, as long as they are only
>> transferring...
> That is up to the country you are transferring through. In the US, for
> instance, you need to go through imigration even when you are transferring
> between two international flights.
>> The borders are real, they do exist do they not, but, isn't it up to the
>> ruling goverment to decide how they enforce those borders, be it at land, at
>> sea, in the air and with whom they allow free passage across those borders?
> I suggest the following Wikipedia article as a good starting point:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

Which says that nations can restrict free passage if they feel it would be
detrimental to their national security...

>> Should administative boundaries at level 2 show an area of border control
>> only? Should the admin_level between EU member states or between schengen
>> member states be a higher level? say 3 or 4? With an EU boundary at level 2?
>> Or a Schengen boundary at level 2? Or overlapping schengen and EU boundaries
>> at level 2 or 3...
> No, but I think admin_level should indicate that a line is a boundary
> between two entities of the same level. When you say that a boundary is
> admin_level 2, does that not indicate that you have one country on one side
> of the line and another country on the other side of the line? If used on
> maritime borders of 12 nm, it indicates that you have one country's
> territorial waters on one side and the contiguous zone of the same country
> on the other side. If used at 24 nm it indicates one contry's contiguos zone
> on one side and the same country's economic zone on the other side.

But... the area outside of the 12nm maritime border is not part of a
countries territory, the fact that they can enforce certain laws up to 24nm,
which it seems is only to allow a country a greater chance of catching
criminals once they've left territorial waters, if a country chooses to
claim a contiguous zone, and the fact that they have a right to exploit
natural resources in the economic zone does not make them borders of these
areas borders of the countries territory, but, 'merely' points at which
certain rights are lost, and these rights are exceptions to the lack of
rights within international waters... I'd say that it could be useful to
record all boundaries, but, the 12nm maritime boundary is the border between
a countries territory and either an other country, or, international waters,
even if it gains certain rights over certain areas of those international
waters due to additional zones claimed under certain treaties...

It's also probably worth noting that 12nm isn't standard across the board
for maritime borders in as much as some countries do claim more and some

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