[OSM-talk] Access restrictions (was: Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions))

[Charlie Echo]

>From what I understand:
- each country has its own rules for vehicle definitions and access definition: roads accessible for Cars, Taxis, PSV, Bus, Goods, Bicycles, ... 
- in each country, there is a limited number of "common rules": in France, Bus lanes can be used by Taxis an Bicycles.
- most Ways are Oneways. If comparing length, it's probably not the case, but by number of ways, it IS probably the case.

It will be very had to set-up a tagging scheme for all cases. But in each country, it could be possible to set-up basic rules, with basic names that would then be applied to all Roads.
To put it another way: as long as we don't have a common Driving Licence, we won't easily have common Rules.

So I suggest that the Access tag would be defined on a Country basis.
1. define the types of vehicles
Car = 4 wheel vehicle below 2 tons (?)
Bicycle = ...
Bus = ... 

2. Define the type of Access
Bus lane = Bus + Bicyle + Taxi
...

3. Define the Acces on Ways.
direct_way:all/car/bus/bicycle/...  (the values being the ones defined in 2.)
opposite_way:SAME/all/car/bus/...  (same values, with additional SAME)

With this kind of definitions, someone would know directly if he is sitting in a Car, a Bus or a PSV; and a driving software would automatically be able to define the accesible ways.



----- Mail Original -----
De: "Ben Laenen" <benlaenen at gmail.com>
À: talk at openstreetmap.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 26 Juin 2008 18:17:07 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne
Objet: [OSM-talk] Access restrictions (was: Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions))


Hi all,

With the psv_directions discussion, I've started 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Access_restrictions 
to completely rethink the idea of access restrictions once. There's no 
proposed tagging scheme yet (so technically this is not a RFC yet). For 
now I want to see a page filled with ideas, suggestions, current 
problems, issues to keep in mind and more I may forget about.

So, I'd like to see the page grow a bit with your contributions. Ever 
ran into a problem you weren't able to tag? Then list it on the page.

The access restrictions are very important tags so I want to see a lot 
of input to finally get a tagging scheme that's good for all :-)

Greetings
Ben




On Thursday 26 June 2008, Charlie Echo wrote:
> On the one side, I agree that tagging should be more ellaborate.
> On the other side, I just imagine few exceptions, and few categories
> of vehicles. For instance, in France, when I write "psv", I mean
> "buses, cabs, bicycles", because they are all allowed on the same
> way, and everyone knows it. In fact, for the vast majority of ways,
> everyone is allowed. So we may tolerate tricky tagging for tricky
> events.
>
> >So we might start thinking about this once before quickly patching
> >current problems with tags like psv_directions :-)
>
> I suppose when we have defined a new tagging reference, a small
> script will be run on the database to modify automatically all ways,
> and to raise flags if there is a need of manual intervention, which
> should be rare. (such a script should be run to replace the value "1"
> or "true" by "yes" when relevant, and so on...)
>
> My point is to add information in the system in a structured way,
> even if too complex. As the need of taging this "opposite bus lane"
> is quite frequent where I live (Paris, France), I MUST find a
> solution quickly. My current best approach is to create two ways, one
> for cars one-way, and the other two-way for buses. It's stupid, and
> splitting one way in two is a nonsense that will be hard to modify
> back, so I really want to have it fixed!
>
> Cheers,
>
> ----- Mail Original -----
> De: "Ben Laenen" <benlaenen at gmail.com>
> À: talk at openstreetmap.org
> Cc: "Charlie Echo" <openstreetmap at coutiere.com>
> Envoyé: Jeudi 26 Juin 2008 16:08:36 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin /
> Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging]
> Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
>
> On Thursday 26 June 2008, Charlie Echo wrote:
> > The proposal you mention is a radical change in the way we would
> > tag. We would move from tag=value to tag:subtag:subtag=value.
>
> Sure, it's very different to current tagging, but we need to think
> about more complex access restrictions.
>
> The proposal isn't perfect either, one can't for example say that
> goods vehicles over 3.5 tons are not allowed except for loading and
> unloading (a restriction that appears a lot over here). The problem
> in that restriction being that it depends on more than one property:
> goods vehicles (buses are always allowed for example), maximum weight
> 3.5 tons, and an exception for loading and unloading its goods in the
> area where the restriction applies.
>
> Or what about restrictions applying one direction only, or
> restrictions applying to only one lane in a three lane road?
>
> The ordering problems you mention is another thing. I also can see
> lots of ambiguity issues coming up.
>
> Nevertheless, instead of adding new tags like psv_directions, and
> after that probably moped_directions, bus_directions,
> tram_directions, motorcycle_directions etc, we should think about a
> much better tagging scheme for this. The proposal I mentioned is a
> step towards something more powerful, but not quite there yet.
>
> So we might start thinking about this once before quickly patching
> current problems with tags like psv_directions :-)
>
> Greetings
> Ben

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