[OSM-talk] YOURS now supports route using only cycleroutes -Update

Mon Sep 29 08:26:48 BST 2008

Thanks for the explanation. Clearly it is all very early days for this stuff
and yes, it is also my understanding that OpenRouteService is not (yet) open
source. The interface that they use to say where the person wants to start
and where they want to end and then to define the format for the route that
is returned is however exchanged by a published open standard from the OGC,
hence my post.

Here is some information about how ORS works:

http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2876
<http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2876&trv=1> &trv=1

And here is a page of download about the OpenLS standard that they using:

http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/ols

And here and some quotes from the documentation in the zip file for the
OpenLS Service available from that page

“This service determines a route for a subscriber. The subscriber must use a
navigation application to set up the use of the service. They must indicate
the start point (usually the position acquired through the Gateway Service,
but this could be a planned trip from a specified location, say, from their
home), and the endpoint (any location, like a place for which they only have
the phone number or an address, or a place acquired through a search to a
Directory Service). The subscriber may optionally specify waypoints, in some
manner, the route preference (fastest, shortest, least traffic, most scenic,
etc.), and the preferred mode of transport. The subscriber may optionally
store a route for as long as needed, thus requiring the means to also fetch
a stored route 

“The Route ADT is actually two ADTs: Route Summary and Route Geometry. Route
Summary contains the route’s overall characteristics, such as its start
point, waypoints, end point, transportation type, total distance, travel
time, and bounding box. Route Geometry contains a list of geographic
positions along the route, ordered in the sequence of planned travel,
starting with the position of the route’s origin and ending with the
position of the route’s destination. The geometry includes the positions of
all nodes along the route, including waypoints. The geometry also includes
intermediate points needed to describe the geometric shape of the route
segments between each node in the route. These two ADTs are generated by the
Route Service and “presented” to a subscriber as routing information, e.g.
as a route displayed over a map, via the Presentation Service, or they are
used directly by an application to guide a mobile subscriber to their
destination. 

Clearly this is a standard for the same purpose as we need. I am of course
also aware that OGC standards tend to be big and bulky, and that OSM may
wish to use something much simpler, but I am keen that we do share a
standard for routing engines. There are other standardized internfaces as
well for converting a textual description of a place to a geocode and the
rreverse (ie converting, 10 London Road, Blogville into a lat/long and the
reverse).

Regards,

Peter

  _____  

From: Nic Roets [mailto:nroets at gmail.com] 
Sent: 28 September 2008 21:51
To: Peter Miller
Cc: Talk Openstreetmap
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] YOURS now supports route using only cycleroutes
-Update

AFAIK, ORS is not FOSS. Neither has Lambertus published his source, although
I believe it will eventually be done.

The gosmore / YOURS API is quite simple. Input is basically the permalink
URL and the output is a list of coordinates in CSV format. It includes info
about the segments such as way names and junction types e.g. traffic_signals
/ mini_roundabout. So YOURS has enough info to generate verbose English
output, but it's just not implemented.

Currently gosmore does not allow it's routing parameters to be changed
between queries. It is a feature that's easy to implement that Lambertus has
asked me for. It will allow different YOURS users to have different
preferences, which will be pretty cool, but I may not get time to implement
it before 2009.

If YOURS can allow users to manage many different markers, it will be easier
to tweak routes. For example forcing the route from A to Z to visit B and
see how much of a detour it is. It sound like basic OpenLayers stuff, but
neither Lambertus nor I are experienced enough with it.

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 8:34 PM, Peter Miller <peter.miller at itoworld.com>
wrote:

Given that we now have two web interfaces for routing and two routing
engines would it make sense to try to standardise the interface? I know
standards can be a pain, but so can a load of custom interfaces. Is anything
like this being done?

I believe that OpenRouteService uses an OGC standard for their interface. Is
this what you use? If not is it too big, heavy and slow, or is it just not
suitable or what?

If it is usable then possibly you could put a wrapper around the routing
engine you are using so that you can use the same interface as ORS. If you
did that then you could possibly let people choose the routing engine they
prefer and then possibly someone else might come out with a better routing
engine with the same API and it would also be getting very interesting :)

Anyway, thanks for what you have been doing. I am listening and
experimenting. I have been tweeking the tagging in my home town each week to
improve the routing using YOURS. It is still coming up with some weird
routes that I can explain and I will report them to you if I become sure it
isn't my fault. The details at the bottom of the page that report the
dataset version is very useful. An RSS feed to this would be handy, as would
more frequent updates if you can manage it. I find the weekly cycle of
testing, changing, waiting means that problems take some time to get sorted.
Mind you it is the same with Mapnik and the Cycle mapping.

Regards,

Peter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
> bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Lambertus
> Sent: 26 September 2008 11:15
> To: Talk Openstreetmap
> Subject: [Spam] Re: [OSM-talk] YOURS now supports route using only
> cycleroutes -Update
>

> Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > I'm not sure what is the status and goal of this site, so I don't know
> > how interested you might be in "bug reports", but I just tried to get
> > a fastest car route from Montréal Québec to New Haven, Connecticut, and
> > the route stops in the middle of nowhere.  The "shortest" route seems
> > OK, except it uses way too many little roads.
> >
> > Just for kicks, I also tried the fastest bicycle route from Montréal to
> > Buenos Aires and it similarly stops in the middle of nowhere.
> >
>
> Status:
> - Website: heavily in development
> - Routing engine: don't know (not maintained by me)
>
> Goal:
> Use OpenStreetMap data to make a routing website utilizing as much other
> (opensource) services/application as possible. I develop *only* the glue
> logic; the webinterface.
>
> I'm always interested in bug reports, suggestions or code snippets but I
> don't maintain the routing engine.
>
> Regarding your route from Montreal - New Haven, works for me.
> fastest:
> <http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153
<http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153&flon=-> &flon=-
> 72.928158&tlat=45.531875&tlon=-73.636881&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik>
>
> Shortest:
> <http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153
<http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=41.308153&flon=-> &flon=-
> 72.928158&tlat=45.531875&tlon=-73.636881&v=motorcar&fast=0&layer=mapnik>
>
> If a route stops somewhere between the start and stop coordinates then
> the routing engine (Gosmore) wasn't able to calculate a complete route
> and returns it's best solution (which might be using a lot of small
> roads even when you chose 'fastest'). In case of Montreal - Buenos Aires
> this is caused there isn't a continuing connecting road between those
> cities. Especially in Central America there is a lot of 'here be
> dragons' land. This effectively prevents routing between North and South
> America.
>
> Although I've put some working long distance examples below there are
> also situations where Gosmore just seems to 'give up' while a route is
> possible. Example: just try to route from Berlin to Madrid (type those
> names to get the coordinates). Gosmore is not able to return a complete
> route but routes from Madrid to Amsterdam and from Amsterdam to Berlin
> (or Madrid - Geneve - Berlin and many other in-betweens) are working
> just fine.
>
> Some other examples:
> Glasgow - London
> <http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=55.79274
<http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=55.79274&flon=-> &flon=-
> 4.354897&tlat=51.389725&tlon=-0.114174&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik>
>
> GB: Northeastern tip - Southwestern tip, 1445km
> <http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=58.642109
<http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=58.642109&flon=-> &flon=-
> 3.068728&tlat=50.066191&tlon=-5.700649&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik>
>
> Europe: Amsterdam - Madrid, 2056km
> <http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=52.36227
<http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=52.36227&flon=4.798082&tlat=40.409275>
&flon=4.798082&tlat=40.409275
> &tlon=-3.710699&v=motorcar&fast=1&layer=mapnik>
>
> There are also other routing 'problems' (weird route decisions) which
> are difficult to explain, so I'll create a wiki page for that where they
> can be gathered which might help to solve common problems.
>
>
>
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