[OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

Russ Nelson nelson at crynwr.com
Sat Oct 3 19:53:30 BST 2009

Matt Amos writes:
 > > I point to the +1 year age of the Noname proposal and recent
 > > inactivity and suggest that convergance isn't happening.
 > maybe there isn't a need for convergence here? we've got a nonames map
 > to help mappers decide where their time might be well-spent.

And well-spent and well-spent and well-spent, as mappers repeatedly
home in on roads which have no name, and no way to tell the nonames
map that there is in fact no name.  So they put in
name=Fiddle-de-Faddle Street and gee, nonames stops marking it as not
having a name.  WIN!

Can I prove that this has happened?  No.  And that's the problem.  If
it happened, then we now have a namless road which is named only in
OSM.  I can understand mistakes and omissions.  I can't understand why
people would advocate FOR error.

The claim was made that convergance happens automatically, with no
guidance.  I've presented an example where it doesn't, and now you're
trying to say that when convergance doesn't happen, it's because
convergance isn't necessary.

 > steve is perfectly able to weigh in on one side of the argument or
 > other.

Actually, not, he's not.  He's told me that he's tried doing that, and
when he does, he's told that he's shilling for Cloudmade, or that he's
evil, or that he has a portal to hell in his basement, or in his attic
or wherever, or that he's breeding strange conglomeration animals.

 > where we're disagreeing is that you're suggesting some sort of
 > special status to his opinion, and i'm suggesting that, while his
 > opinion is important and valuable, there are others in the
 > community who are equally well-placed to offer good guidance.

No.  A project founder always has a greater gravitas.  It's possible
to destroy that gravitas through years of a consistent pattern of
misbehavior, but Steve hasn't done that.

 > finally, for effective leadership there also has to be the opportunity
 > for people to *not* follow. if you want to follow someone's leadership
 > that's fine. but please don't try to compel that followership onto
 > others.

Where does this WEIRD idea come from that I'm advocating that anybody
be forced to do anything???????????  I've already said that the
paragraph you quoted earlier was taken out of context and then

The OSM community is hostile to leadership even when that leadership
merely renders advice.  Frederick's advice to create a committee to
provide leadership is not useful advice.  SteveC (or you, or Shawn, or
Andy) are willing to provide advice.  The community has been told that
anybody who takes advice is a sheep, or that we intentionally don't
tag consistently and that's okay, or that we'll never ever do things
that way here.

I seem to have to repeat the disclaimer every couple of paragraphs:
I'm not talking about forcing anybody to do anything.  I AM talking
about not denigrating the concept of leadership.

--my blog is at    http://blog.russnelson.com
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