[OSM-talk] bot vandalism

Apollinaris Schoell aschoell at gmail.com
Mon Oct 12 08:36:27 BST 2009


On 11 Oct 2009, at 22:37 , Matthias Versen wrote:

> Apollinaris Schoell wrote:
>> I know it has been discussed before but found a lot of broken data
>> created by bot bugbuster and this is important enough to bring it  
>> up again.
>> There was some lame response but never really an explanation what  
>> this
>> bot is doing. Some edits are correct others are not.
>
> Always include examples that are bad (changeset + relation/way/node ).

  wanted to raise the problem of bots in general, don't need help to  
revert or anyone to check the data.

>
>> There is little information in the wiki that there has been some bug
>> fixes. But how can I know if the bot doesn't break my fixed data  
>> again.
>
> What did the owner of the but answered ?
>
>> Should we allow bots at all? Sure if they are useful and  
>> documented. But
>> there should be a need to do a quality check and review first before
>> someone is allowed to run a bot against the whole planet.
>
> Should we allow to register everyone only with a valid email address  
> and
> let him edit the whole planet with JOSM/potlatch/script without  
> quality
> check ?
> This new users are doing the same mistakes I did at the beginning and
> they often break valid data and they sometimes don't respond to emails
> if you have questions unlike the bot owner of that bot.

the difference is no Potlatch or Josm user can edit that fast and  
destructive unless it's some evil vandal. a broken bot can destroy lot  
of data before even anyone detects it. If it's real vandalism we can  
simply revert but a 90% useful bot change is hard to justify for a  
full revert to make sure the 10% are fixed.
>
>> this bot does so many edits and it's very difficult to even find  
>> all the
>> bad edits in a flood of edits.
>
> I have a flood of edits as well :
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nightdive/edits

a lot but this doesn't qualify for a flood yet. 60k changesets in 8  
months compared to ~1.3m in less than 1.5 months
>
>> Is this a candidate for the new block feature to stop the bot until  
>> it's
>> clearly documented and approved by voting or an other form of  
>> agreement?
>
> Provide examples, try to communicate with the owner of the bot and if
> you fail to find a solution with him and the other people agreeing he
> will be a candidate for a block.

there was some communication but never a detailed explanation and  
documentation. At that time I didn't have an example but John Smith  
had one. The real problem is now to find out what went wrong, why did  
it brake and where do we need to fix it.  But again my main concern is  
that users with best indention but not enough knowledge run bots on  
the whole planet. Every mapper will make mistakes from time to time  
but it's limited. a bot will multiply each mistake. this needs more  
than 2 eyes to review the resiks

>
> Matthias
>
>
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