[OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back

Andy Allan gravitystorm at gmail.com
Wed Feb 24 09:27:51 GMT 2010

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:42 PM, SteveC <steve at asklater.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your thoughtful comments...

And I hope you've taken some of them on board.

> You don't seem to make any realistic suggestions for moving forward and just, instead, suggest potlatch is fine as is the front page. That doesn't seem to be in touch with the reality of every newbie who encounters the project, does it?

That's not what I said, and it's not what I believe either. Please
don't misrepresent me. You should know both from the time you employed
me to work on these issues, and discussions we've had since, that your
accusation here is false. But it's a nice sidestep of the issue I was

> Sure, you don't like the way I communicate sometimes

Hmm. It sounds to me like you don't think you've done anything wrong?
I notice you don't write "Sure, I'm grossly offensive without due
cause sometimes", but instead infer that the issue isn't the way you
behave, instead it's that other people dislike your behaviour.

> but do you have any ideas at all on improving things other than the status quo and pissing on someone for doing anything?

Yes I do. You should know, since I've discussed them with you before.
But since you disagree with them, it's probably easier for you to
accuse me of suggesting that everything is fine, and then portray me
as a malcontent holding the project back.

* Steve goes and reads "Art of Community"
* Steve apologies - without caveats - regarding his demeaning of
existing developers work
* Steve re-reads
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Developer_community , which he
originally wrote
* We all work constructively on motivating our developers and
nurturing new ones.
* We acknowledge that the developers actually know what they are talking about.

On the user experience:
* Work continues on Potlatch2
* We make available the rails_port in a DVCS (e.g. git), to encourage
* We implement the ideas on branches and see what works:
** this redesign,
** the previous redesign from CloudMade
** OSB integration,
** the "minor UI improvements" list
** Integrating Walking Papers into the main site
** Integration of routing
** More layers on the map
** and other suggestions
* Add a javascript click-tracker to see what people actually press
* Focus redesigns on making things easier to understand, rather than
removing options
* Run multiple hack weekends, with the aims of encouraging new
rails_port contributors, and existing developers to work on these

If you want to spend money on achieving the above, then sponsoring
existing developers to do the work, or sponsor someone to aid new
developers (through documentation and engagement etc) would be my
recommendation. Or hire a venue for hack weekends, buy pizza, fund
travel and so on. These are all things that have worked great before.

If you want to spend time on the above, then engaging with the
existing developers and finding out what they want help with would be
my recommendation.

> and everyone of 'our' generation is intensely negative.

Not surprising, given that it appears that the more work you've done
for the project, the more likely it is to be attacked for their


More information about the talk mailing list