[OSM-talk] New Logo in the Wiki

Sun May 1 03:45:23 BST 2011

Agreed.

On 4/30/2011 7:31 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:
> David, this is complete nonsense. Please stop.
> -Mikel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* David Murn <davey at incanberra.com.au>
> *To:* SteveC <steve at asklater.com>
> *Cc:* "talk at openstreetmap.org" <talk at openstreetmap.org>
> *Sent:* Sat, April 30, 2011 6:15:08 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] New Logo in the Wiki
>
> On Sat, 2011-04-30 at 09:03 -0700, SteveC wrote:
> > You will also find discussion of this list in that meeting. If I had
> > posted the new logo idea here before doing anything there would have
> > been a gigantic discussion on it and nothing would happen.
>
> What a load of bollocks.  Has the OSMF ever changed its direction or
> strategy after feedback from this list?  The various committees do what
> they please when they please, that wont change.  It appears that the
> announcement here HAS caused a gigantic discussion, and while a small
> part has been about the logo change, a big part of the discussion is the
> way that we as a community are treated.  If SWG and OSMF feel they have
> the power to do what they want without consulting the community, then
> those handful of mappers should be the ones mapping and not be using the
> efforts of the community they refuse to consult with.  Maybe SWG needs
> to comprehend what the O in OSM means, it doesnt mean you make major
> decisions behind closed doors, document them with a 3 word note in the
> minutes and refuse to discuss with the community because it might cause
> a big discussion, even aware that once the community becomes aware of
> their change, a big discussion will ensue anyway.
>
> > Any progress at all in any direction now means at least 5 or 10 people
> > on this list don't like it.
>
> So, the OSM executive committee (which as some people like to keep
> pointing out is a registered non-profit in some countries) doesnt like
> seeking input from the community (of apparently 200k+ people) because
> 5-10 might dislike their idea?  Seriously, where did we find this
> handful of people who cant handle a couple of people disliking their
> ideas?  Apparently watching this discussion.
>
> >From what Ive seen in the ensuing discussion, the feedback to the logo
> itself was mostly positive, the displeasure has been with the process
> used to change things.  Sadly this is pretty much on-par with what we're
> starting to expect from those in power lately.
>
> >  That makes it very hard for anyone to achieve anything without
> >  treating this list as noise. We need to get away from that. Any ideas
> >  appreciated.
>
> My idea is that OSMF should treat the OSM community as the public they
> serve, rather than a bunch of noise.  Exactly how strong does OSMF think
> the project and data would be, if everyone who had an opinion (who wasnt
> a financial member of some overseas non-profit) was banned?
>
> David
>
> > On Apr 30, 2011, at 7:23, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer 
> <dieterdreist at gmail.com <mailto:dieterdreist at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > 2011/4/30 Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:mikel_maron at yahoo.com>>:
> > >> From: Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch <mailto:simon at poole.ch>>
> > >>> While I don't quite understand why the SWG has turned in to the 
> WDWG (Web
> > >>> Design Working Group)
> > >> SWG has taken this on because the usability of the site is a the 
> primary way
> > >> users, new and old, engage with OSM, there are definitely issues 
> with it.
> > >
> > >
> > > the logo is not an usability topic.
> > >
> > >
> > >> Yet, in yesterday's meeting, we realized that actually doing 
> anything would
> > >> be a good start.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, looking at the working group log, I realized that. Looks like
> > > Steve posted this proposal [1] he found in the web (or someone sent
> > > him), and one day later some logos are changed on the front page (some
> > > still are old versions).
> > >
> > > There is two quotes I want to cite from the log:
> > >
> > > 1.
> > > (12:38:15 PM) SteveC: TomH: how is rails 3 coming BTW?
> > > (12:39:02 PM) TomH: oh it mostly works, but there's an issue with our
> > > multi-part primary keys that is giving me grief
> > > (12:39:11 PM) TomH: that's the only thing causing test failures 
> now though
> > >
> > > 2.
> > > "(12:42:31 PM) SteveC: wonderchook: and I have opinions on Fukushima
> > > despite not being a nuclear engineer, but it's much better to have
> > > people work on design who... know how to design and build things"
> > >
> > > It's not that I necessarily prefer the old logo above the one that is
> > > there at the moment, it is the process I want to point at. Why, if
> > > there are apparently no designers in the SWG, should there be such a
> > > hurry (and why should they decide at all, maybe setting up a design
> > > group would be a better alternative)? The logo change is a big deal,
> > > it affects hundreds of sites (also of other people using OSM data and
> > > show the logo), stickers, t-shirts, cups, flyers and other print
> > > material and maps(!)...
> > >
> > > Usually changing the logo is not a oneliner, it is an iterative
> > > process. Make some proposals, choose the aspects you like, recombine
> > > them, ...
> > >
> > > Like software deployment requires testing (see irc-log above, 1.) the
> > > same is valid (in a different way) also for design (2.) and even more
> > > for UI-design. Usually the first experiments are not done on the front
> > > page.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > Martin
> > > ______
> > >
> > > [1] (12:35:35 PM) SteveC: Go look at this logo:
> > > 
> http://raraken.deviantart.com/art/OpenStreetMap-Icon-Logo-174454488?q=gallery:Raraken/6244368&qo=8 
> <http://raraken.deviantart.com/art/OpenStreetMap-Icon-Logo-174454488?q=gallery:Raraken/6244368&qo=8>
> > >
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