[OSM-talk] "Incorrect speed limit" anonymous notes - who is behind that?

[Philip Barnes]

On Sun, 2014-08-10 at 15:13 +0100, John Sturdy wrote:
> I wonder whether these "incorrect speed limit" notes might not be
> reporting that the speed limit on the map isn't what it is on the
> road, but someone objecting to what the speed limit on the road is,
> and making a token protest about it?
> 
Most I have seen are plain ridiculous. Apart from the obvious error of
using kph in the UK, and USA? Many are 0 (impossible or 10 (really
unlikely). The only valid speed I have found was telling me that the
speed limit on the M25 is 70mph, which was of course already tagged.

There is a lot of accidental misuse of notes, where they are used to tag
"meet here", "the site" and so on. These are things that should use the
share button, but the misuse is understandable, the word note does not
imply suggest improvement or highlight omission. A note in normal usage
is something private and informal.

It would be interesting to know where these speed limit notes are coming
from, if an app is posting then it is only good manners to say who you
are.

Speed limits are an area in which we are lacking in many areas, but they
are also something that needs careful surveying. I am certainly working
on these where I can. But it is a slow process, notes highlighting a
missing speed limit in a cul-de-sac are not likely to make any mapper
change their mapping plan.

Phil (trigpoint)


> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:24 PM, JB <jbosm at mailoo.org> wrote:
> > Have a look  there:
> > https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/486
> > If categories are create (and I think they should), I would still add
> > private notes/heavy duty work
> > JB.
> >
> > Le 10/08/2014 14:10, Matthijs Melissen a écrit :
> >
> >> I see a lot of comments like this. The underlying problem seems to be
> >> that it is not clear whether notes are meant for armchair mappers, or
> >> for surveyors in the field.
> >>
> >> I think both types of notes are useful: that way the notes can serve
> >> as a two-way communication between mappers in the field (for example
> >> novices who don't know how to edit the map themselves) and armchair
> >> mappers (who might want to communicate with mappers in the field if
> >> they are unable to do a field check themselves at that moment).
> >>
> >> So the solution might be very simple: make two types of notes, 'desk'
> >> notes and 'field' notes. The desk notes can be handled by armchair
> >> mappers. The field notes need a check in the field. Notes created by
> >> anonymous users should be desk notes by default, and if information is
> >> missing, the armchair mapper should be able to turn it into a field
> >> note.
> >>
> >> The notes JB refers seem to be field-type notes. I think they are
> >> useful, and I think it's not helpful if armchair mappers try to close
> >> all of them without doing a survey.
> >>
> >> Anyone think a split in field and desk notes is a good idea?
> >> Implementation of this should be easy.
> >>
> >> -- Matthijs
> >>
> >> On 10 August 2014 11:50, JB <jbosm at mailoo.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I think I will reopen the debate here, by asking a simple question: how
> >>> many
> >>> of those saying "hey, let this note open, it does no harm to anybody"
> >>> have
> >>> actually browsed a country for its opened notes and tried to close them?
> >>> How
> >>> many have done the same with openstreetbugs during its last year of life?
> >>> If you have not, let me tell you, loud and clear: the note database will
> >>> become unusable soon. When you browse 10 notes and are forced to leave 9
> >>> open because it does provide no clean information, you just stop trying.
> >>> That is why during OSB close up, I found so many notes of that kind
> >>> (continue the path, this is wrong, this does not exist, etc.), that where
> >>> just not clear enough, or where just too old (the correction had been
> >>> done
> >>> without OSB), and most of them where more than 2 years old. And this is
> >>> why
> >>> OSB was a mess in the end.
> >>> I have tried to keep the DB clean in France, am still trying by beeing
> >>> less
> >>> narrow-minded, but I just see its quality decreasing every day.
> >>> So I do not have the exact number, but adding some 10s of little valued
> >>> notes every week saying "this speed limit may be wrong", some of them
> >>> added
> >>> by error (not along a highway) does not seem an improvement to the notes
> >>> DB
> >>> to me.
> >>> JB.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Le 10/08/2014 09:42, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>>> Il giorno 09/ago/2014, alle ore 13:56, Norbert Wenzel
> >>>>> <norbert.wenzel.lists at gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> just seeing these notes along a
> >>>>> motorway every few kilometers. And since these messages don't tell what
> >>>>> the actual speed limit should be and where it starts it gets really
> >>>>> annoying to close all these automatically generated notes.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> why are you closing them, if you can't solve the issue? I would keep
> >>>> them
> >>>> open, if you are not sure that the limit is correct in OSM
> >>>>
> >>>> cheers,
> >>>> Martin
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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