[OSM-talk] "Incorrect speed limit" anonymous notes - who is behind that?

Sun Aug 17 21:16:57 UTC 2014

I've seen km/h speed limits in the US.  There's even a sign standard for
these, and the Federal Highway Administration is recommending the new signs
over the existing MPH signs (tonnes and km/h are circled on the sign,
obsolete units have no circle).

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 2014-08-10 at 15:13 +0100, John Sturdy wrote:
> > I wonder whether these "incorrect speed limit" notes might not be
> > reporting that the speed limit on the map isn't what it is on the
> > road, but someone objecting to what the speed limit on the road is,
> > and making a token protest about it?
> >
> Most I have seen are plain ridiculous. Apart from the obvious error of
> using kph in the UK, and USA? Many are 0 (impossible or 10 (really
> unlikely). The only valid speed I have found was telling me that the
> speed limit on the M25 is 70mph, which was of course already tagged.
>
> There is a lot of accidental misuse of notes, where they are used to tag
> "meet here", "the site" and so on. These are things that should use the
> share button, but the misuse is understandable, the word note does not
> imply suggest improvement or highlight omission. A note in normal usage
> is something private and informal.
>
> It would be interesting to know where these speed limit notes are coming
> from, if an app is posting then it is only good manners to say who you
> are.
>
> Speed limits are an area in which we are lacking in many areas, but they
> are also something that needs careful surveying. I am certainly working
> on these where I can. But it is a slow process, notes highlighting a
> missing speed limit in a cul-de-sac are not likely to make any mapper
> change their mapping plan.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
>
> > On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:24 PM, JB <jbosm at mailoo.org> wrote:
> > > Have a look  there:
> > > https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/486
> > > If categories are create (and I think they should), I would still add
> > > private notes/heavy duty work
> > > JB.
> > >
> > > Le 10/08/2014 14:10, Matthijs Melissen a écrit :
> > >
> > >> I see a lot of comments like this. The underlying problem seems to be
> > >> that it is not clear whether notes are meant for armchair mappers, or
> > >> for surveyors in the field.
> > >>
> > >> I think both types of notes are useful: that way the notes can serve
> > >> as a two-way communication between mappers in the field (for example
> > >> novices who don't know how to edit the map themselves) and armchair
> > >> mappers (who might want to communicate with mappers in the field if
> > >> they are unable to do a field check themselves at that moment).
> > >>
> > >> So the solution might be very simple: make two types of notes, 'desk'
> > >> notes and 'field' notes. The desk notes can be handled by armchair
> > >> mappers. The field notes need a check in the field. Notes created by
> > >> anonymous users should be desk notes by default, and if information is
> > >> missing, the armchair mapper should be able to turn it into a field
> > >> note.
> > >>
> > >> The notes JB refers seem to be field-type notes. I think they are
> > >> useful, and I think it's not helpful if armchair mappers try to close
> > >> all of them without doing a survey.
> > >>
> > >> Anyone think a split in field and desk notes is a good idea?
> > >> Implementation of this should be easy.
> > >>
> > >> -- Matthijs
> > >>
> > >> On 10 August 2014 11:50, JB <jbosm at mailoo.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>> I think I will reopen the debate here, by asking a simple question:
> how
> > >>> many
> > >>> of those saying "hey, let this note open, it does no harm to anybody"
> > >>> have
> > >>> actually browsed a country for its opened notes and tried to close
> them?
> > >>> How
> > >>> many have done the same with openstreetbugs during its last year of
> life?
> > >>> If you have not, let me tell you, loud and clear: the note database
> will
> > >>> become unusable soon. When you browse 10 notes and are forced to
> leave 9
> > >>> open because it does provide no clean information, you just stop
> trying.
> > >>> That is why during OSB close up, I found so many notes of that kind
> > >>> (continue the path, this is wrong, this does not exist, etc.), that
> where
> > >>> just not clear enough, or where just too old (the correction had been
> > >>> done
> > >>> without OSB), and most of them where more than 2 years old. And this
> is
> > >>> why
> > >>> OSB was a mess in the end.
> > >>> I have tried to keep the DB clean in France, am still trying by
> beeing
> > >>> less
> > >>> narrow-minded, but I just see its quality decreasing every day.
> > >>> So I do not have the exact number, but adding some 10s of little
> valued
> > >>> notes every week saying "this speed limit may be wrong", some of them
> > >>> added
> > >>> by error (not along a highway) does not seem an improvement to the
> notes
> > >>> DB
> > >>> to me.
> > >>> JB.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Le 10/08/2014 09:42, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit :
> > >>>
> > >>>>> Il giorno 09/ago/2014, alle ore 13:56, Norbert Wenzel
> > >>>>> <norbert.wenzel.lists at gmail.com> ha scritto:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> just seeing these notes along a
> > >>>>> motorway every few kilometers. And since these messages don't tell
> what
> > >>>>> the actual speed limit should be and where it starts it gets really
> > >>>>> annoying to close all these automatically generated notes.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> why are you closing them, if you can't solve the issue? I would keep
> > >>>> them
> > >>>> open, if you are not sure that the limit is correct in OSM
> > >>>>
> > >>>> cheers,
> > >>>> Martin
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
> > >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> > >
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