[OSM-talk] [OHM] Should we map former endonyms?

Jo winfixit at gmail.com
Wed Mar 19 21:26:41 UTC 2014

If you want to be able to specify more details like during which period the
name was used, maybe it's an option to add it to wikidata.


2014-03-19 22:15 GMT+01:00 Brad Neuhauser <brad.neuhauser at gmail.com>:

> You can enter whatever language codes you want in the Multilingual Map
> Test, so for Finnish just enter "fi" in the text box.  (ex:
> http://mlm.jochentopf.com/?zoom=7&lat=52.57802&lon=19.11621&layers=B0T&lang=fi
> )
> To the original question, there is the old_name tag, which is documented
> on the name page (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name) and has
> almost 90000 uses (
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/old_name#overview). In addition,
> the name page mentions the option of old_name:<lang>=* which might best fit
> what you're looking for.  (there are even some uses of old_name:fi=*
> already: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/old_name%3Afi)
> Cheers, Brad
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Laurence Penney <lorp at lorp.org> wrote:
>> It’s great to have such things mapped, but it does need care.
>> In this field Jochen Topf coded “Multilingual Map Test” together back in
>> 2012. You might ask him to add Finnish to the languages offered.
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2012-November/065312.html
>> Here’s part of Poland, shown with German labels:
>> http://mlm.jochentopf.com/?zoom=7&lat=52.57802&lon=19.11621&layers=B0T&lang=de
>> While the larger cities have well-known and current German names that are
>> uncontroversial — Warschau, Posen, Breslau, etc. — many small towns and
>> villages would only have been given German names during the Third Reich.
>> It is therefore contentious to use the “name:de” tag for these places,
>> unless one is making a map of occupied Poland during WW2. The naming was a
>> political act, and most of the names were not used by Germans, even those
>> living in the vicinity, before 1939 or after 1945. Taking politics out of
>> it, perhaps one could use the date to indicate when the name was in use,
>> thus a key of “name:de(1939-1945)”.
>> It would be good to speak to historians who specialize in this area.
>> - L
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 20:37, Chris Helenius <chris.helenius at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> How are historical place names from annexed countries regarded? Or put in
>> another way; when does a name no longer exist?
>> In the case on Finland, which lost Karelia to Russia in the 1950s,
>> hundreds of place names were translated and are now officially Russian,
>> with the Finnish population gone.
>> Former place names could nevertheless be of historical value (e.g. to see
>> the geographical extent of the language), as physical historical features
>> are.
>> The question is, does a name disappear when it is no longer used? Larger
>> cities are still called by their Finnish names in a Finnish context, so
>> would towns and villages be any different? Or when they are deserted?
>> There is also the unignorable issue of geopolitics, as there are still
>> tensions between the countries.
>> There is no shortage of geographical naming disputes (
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Geographical_naming_disputes),
>> and wikipedians themselves had a row over geographical names. (
>> http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/02/05/China_Japan_Wikipedia_War_Senkaku_Diaoyu?page=full
>> )
>> I can imagine how the naming could be seen having a political agenda.
>> For what it's worth, my agenda is only historical, although I can't shrug
>> off my national bias.
>> Before I go and add name:fi= place-names, I'd like to hear what the
>> community thinks of this.
>> Chris Helenius
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