[OSM-talk] [OHM] Should we map former endonyms?

Jo winfixit at gmail.com
Wed Mar 19 21:26:41 UTC 2014


If you want to be able to specify more details like during which period the
name was used, maybe it's an option to add it to wikidata.

Polyglot


2014-03-19 22:15 GMT+01:00 Brad Neuhauser <brad.neuhauser at gmail.com>:

> You can enter whatever language codes you want in the Multilingual Map
> Test, so for Finnish just enter "fi" in the text box.  (ex:
> http://mlm.jochentopf.com/?zoom=7&lat=52.57802&lon=19.11621&layers=B0T&lang=fi
> )
>
> To the original question, there is the old_name tag, which is documented
> on the name page (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name) and has
> almost 90000 uses (
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/old_name#overview). In addition,
> the name page mentions the option of old_name:<lang>=* which might best fit
> what you're looking for.  (there are even some uses of old_name:fi=*
> already: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/old_name%3Afi)
>
> Cheers, Brad
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Laurence Penney <lorp at lorp.org> wrote:
>
>> It’s great to have such things mapped, but it does need care.
>>
>> In this field Jochen Topf coded “Multilingual Map Test” together back in
>> 2012. You might ask him to add Finnish to the languages offered.
>>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2012-November/065312.html
>>
>> Here’s part of Poland, shown with German labels:
>>
>>
>> http://mlm.jochentopf.com/?zoom=7&lat=52.57802&lon=19.11621&layers=B0T&lang=de
>>
>> While the larger cities have well-known and current German names that are
>> uncontroversial — Warschau, Posen, Breslau, etc. — many small towns and
>> villages would only have been given German names during the Third Reich.
>>
>> It is therefore contentious to use the “name:de” tag for these places,
>> unless one is making a map of occupied Poland during WW2. The naming was a
>> political act, and most of the names were not used by Germans, even those
>> living in the vicinity, before 1939 or after 1945. Taking politics out of
>> it, perhaps one could use the date to indicate when the name was in use,
>> thus a key of “name:de(1939-1945)”.
>>
>> It would be good to speak to historians who specialize in this area.
>>
>> - L
>>
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 20:37, Chris Helenius <chris.helenius at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> How are historical place names from annexed countries regarded? Or put in
>> another way; when does a name no longer exist?
>>
>> In the case on Finland, which lost Karelia to Russia in the 1950s,
>> hundreds of place names were translated and are now officially Russian,
>> with the Finnish population gone.
>> Former place names could nevertheless be of historical value (e.g. to see
>> the geographical extent of the language), as physical historical features
>> are.
>>
>> The question is, does a name disappear when it is no longer used? Larger
>> cities are still called by their Finnish names in a Finnish context, so
>> would towns and villages be any different? Or when they are deserted?
>>
>> There is also the unignorable issue of geopolitics, as there are still
>> tensions between the countries.
>> There is no shortage of geographical naming disputes (
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Geographical_naming_disputes),
>> and wikipedians themselves had a row over geographical names. (
>> http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/02/05/China_Japan_Wikipedia_War_Senkaku_Diaoyu?page=full
>> )
>> I can imagine how the naming could be seen having a political agenda.
>>
>> For what it's worth, my agenda is only historical, although I can't shrug
>> off my national bias.
>> Before I go and add name:fi= place-names, I'd like to hear what the
>> community thinks of this.
>>
>> Chris Helenius
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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