[OSM-talk] Organizational mapping policy

[Mikel Maron]

Hi Frederik

> Somehow I have the impression that either the proposal was colossally
> mis-worded, or it as somehow acquired a spin or social dynamic ("OMG
> they're targeting HOT!!!!!") that was never intended and is not, in my
> opinion, in any way present in Paul's request for consultation.



No, didn't think this was intended. Yes perhaps mis-worded. I think as phrased, it's possible unintended consequences that could effect HOT, among other organizations, which haven't had any problems like the ones targeted by the proposed policy.
 

> There's nothing punitive here; there's an attempt to make life easier
> for everyone. It is not about regulating anything - I don't think Paul
> said anything about anyone enforcing mapping rules or whatever - it is
> just about transparency and disclosure.


That's good. I agree, it's a lot about how it's phrased and communicating. When something is labelled as "required", then there's a implication of enforcement. The alternative of a "best community practice" may be the same thing practically, but sounds pretty different.

> If someone teaches OSM to a group of people and instructs them to set up
> an account - does it really make matters worse if you ask them to write
> one sentence on their profile page ("I am Joe Smith and I am learning

> OSM in Mikel's OSM for Dummies course")? Would this not be good practice

> already, even if not expressly written anywhere?

Definitely a good practice. Is there a way to encourage this better during the sign up process? Or after sign up, to alert users that they have a little more to do to make their profile complete? Like some kind of alert next to the user drop down on the top - right?

> In my eyes, this means a fundamental change in approach compared to the>average mapper who does what the like in their spare time; one that is
>worth documenting

Ok, we're probably violently agreeing with each other at this point ;). Agreed. My point is that we should strike the right tone and perception.

> Yes, I think these "Group" ideas could go a long way to help.

Right on! Let's get groups-sketch finished up and deployed.

-Mikel

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:03 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
 
Hi,
>
>On 14.05.2014 23:07, Mikel Maron wrote:
>> I have to say, my initial reaction to this proposal was that it was
>> heavy handed, unnecessarily punitive, over reaching, and not in the
>> spirit of OSM. A cure worse than the disease.
>
>Somehow I have the impression that either the proposal was colossally
>mis-worded, or it as somehow acquired a spin or social dynamic ("OMG
>they're targeting HOT!!!!!") that was never intended and is not, in my
>opinion, in any way present in Paul's request for consultation.
>
>Frankly I see nothing "punitive" or "heavy handed" here but that may
>really be a matter of perception.
>
>If you're in the HOT business then you might immediately see how this
>could apply to some of your projects and might make life harder. When I
>read the proposal, I think of the countless man-hours (and frustration
>and desperation and heated tempers) involved when mappers on the German
>forum once again find a strange edit pattern and over the course of days
>and hundreds of messages the truth slowly emerges.
>
>There's nothing punitive here; there's an attempt to make life easier
>for everyone. It is not about regulating anything - I don't think Paul
>said anything about anyone enforcing mapping rules or whatever - it is
>just about transparency and disclosure.
>
>If someone teaches OSM to a group of people and instructs them to set up
>an account - does it really make matters worse if you ask them to write
>one sentence on their profile page ("I am Joe Smith and I am learning
>OSM in Mikel's OSM for Dummies course")? Would this not be good practice
>already, even if not expressly written anywhere?
>
>> We want to encourage people how to do
>> things well within OSM, rather than discourage them from getting
>> involved at all.
>
>I should be surprised if the measures outlined by Paul were to affect
>more than a small franction of mappers. The overwhelming majority of OSM
>are "ordinary mappers" who do this as a hobby and who would hardly ever
>fall under these rules. They would likely not even read or know of them
>so how would they be discouraged?
>
>> No reason to take a defensive stance, unless an epic
>> problem is erupting.
>
>We're trying to look ahead just a tiny bit. We have seen the problems
>that Wikipedia had with this; we're already seeing SEO spam in OSM
>(which would not be helped by this policy but proves that we're not
>magically exempt from businesses abusing us) - can it hurt to be prepared?
>
>> To summarize what's new here, what the DWG is essential asking for is an
>> association between organized groups and individual user, and details on
>> those organized groups.
>
>Yes, almost; personally I'd say we are concerned about those cases
>where, essentially, if the community wants someone to change their
>mapping they would have to speak to that person's supervisor. So it's
>not so much your average mapping party but really something where the
>organisation has some kind of command structure and the individual
>mapper isn't free to map what they want.
>
>In my eyes, this means a fundamental change in approach compared to the
>average mapper who does what the like in their spare time; one that is
>worth documenting.
>
>> Say I start a mapping project in a slum in Nairobi. I actually want to
>> bring everyone involved together, to communicate among ourselves, to
>> promote our project within the community, to help track and advise what
>> folks are mapping. I want a Group, and I want to integrate it as part of
>> the training process. As a bonus, anyone who has questions about what's
>> going on, can find the association from individual users easily, ask
>> questions of the whole group or group admin, if needed.
>
>Yes, I think these "Group" ideas could go a long way to help.
>
>
>Bye
>Frederik
>
>-- 
>Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
>
>
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