[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #382 2017-11-07-2017-11-13

Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan at gmail.com
Sat Nov 18 18:11:16 UTC 2017


James, this is not about hurt feelings. This is about misrepresentation.

Last week I re-wrote Sophox tool based on the community feedback. The new
tool uses the same approaches as existing tools. Yet, somehow I violated
some unwritten rule by creating a new tool?  This is bogus.

There were many OSM edits I have done in the past. Some of them might have
broken the rules. How does that relate to the new tool discussion?  The
conversation was about the new tool that does things the same way as
several other tools.

How does that break "unwritten rules"?

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:24 AM, James <james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Seriously this is what 2017 has become? A bunch of snowflakes argueing
> whoes feelings are hurt? Seriously grow up people, the world is not full of
> cupcakes and rainbows.
>
> "Yuri is perceived by many as unreasonable as before and tries to ignore
> all the unwritten rules in OSM."
>
> I was somewhat following that email thread and there were many people
> sayong that yuri was unreasonable and that he was ignoring the rules for
> mechanical edits. Journalists are allowed to summarize the general tone of
> a situation without being perceived as "taking sides".
>
> On Nov 17, 2017 10:49 PM, "Clifford Snow" <clifford at snowandsnow.us> wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/11/2017 22:52, Clifford Snow wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Frederik,
>>> I think we are all thankful for the newsletter. And believe they are
>>> free to publish to their own standards. However, because they use OSM
>>> resources by publishing on our mailing lists they need respect our values.
>>> I don't think asking a publication to be respectful to individuals is
>>> asking too much.
>>>
>>>
>>> Clifford,
>>> Being "respectful" is a two-way street.  This is a situation that's been
>>> going on for almost exactly a year now.  During that time this individual
>>> has shown contempt for the OSM community, including on occasion telling
>>> outright untruths.  Conversations with him were very repectful at first
>>> (conducted in changeset discussions rather than on mailing lists), but it
>>> gradually became clear that any statements such as "I have already stopped
>>> changing any objects except" were simply worthless.  At some point you have
>>> to call a lie a lie, and I can't think of a way of doing that without
>>> "being disrespectful".
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely. I'm only suggesting that as a community we strive to be
>> respectful to everyone, all the time. That in no way mean that we condone
>> bad behavior. I'm all for calling out such behavior even to the point of
>> expelling/banning the person if reasonable attempts to get the person to
>> change is futile. My basic belief is that all people have good intentions.
>> Our community goal should be to bring out the best in everyone.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Also, I have to object to the use of "they" and "our" in your comment.
>>> The OSM Weekly is produced by and for people from the OSM community,
>>> exactly the same community that the mailing lists are run by and for.  The
>>> use of that sort of divisive language ("they") reminds me of a visit to
>>> South Africa back in the 90s, and not in a good way.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry for the poor choice of words. Now you see why I don't offer to edit
>> or write for the OSM Weekly.  My grandfather, a former newspaper editor,
>> would have been sadden by my lack of writing abilities.
>>
>> Best,
>> Clifford
>>
>> --
>> @osm_seattle
>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>
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>>
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