[OSM-talk] Fwd: DWG policy on Crimea

Mateusz Konieczny matkoniecz at tutanota.com
Mon Oct 22 12:25:38 UTC 2018


Can you summarize parts of this article (5k+ words, in "long read" section) that are relevant totagging of Russian and Ukrainian border in the Crimea?

22. Oct 2018 00:44 by oleksiy.muzalyev at bluewin.ch <mailto:oleksiy.muzalyev at bluewin.ch>:


>         > Hi Martin,
>       
>       Before continuing this discussion further, I would advise to read      the amazing article "The demise of the nation state" by Rana      Dasgupta available via this link:> https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta <https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta>
>       
>       The issue of national state boundaries is more profound and      ubiquitous than it may seem at first sight. This topic is      controversial and complicated, and Rana Dasgupta's analyses      provides some good starting-point insights.
>       
>       Best regards,
>       Oleksiy
>        
>       On 21.10.18 16:12, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>     >     
>>             >>       >> Dear all,        
>>         >>         >> we all know how sensible the topic of disputed boundaries          can be (they are not necessarily a big problem, many boundary          disputes like between Italy and France about the summit of          Mont Blanc / Monte Bianco, have little bearing on the actual          life of people).>>         
>>         >>         >> Therefore we can all be satisfied there is clear guidance          from the board how to deal with this: the local situation          determines how we map, and the OSMF is explicit here:          “National borders are particularly sensitive. Currently, we          record one set that, in OpenStreetMap contributor opinion, is          most widely internationally recognised and best meets          realities on the ground, generally meaning physical control.”>>         
>>         >>         >> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation. <https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf>>> pdf >>         
>>         >>         >> When I recently looked at Crimea I noticed it is still part          of the Ucraine in OSM: >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/60199 <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/60199>>>         
>>         >>         >> As many might know, the current boundary situation for          Crimea was frozen 4 years ago “for a short time” by the DWG          and so I asked them about their current position 2 months ago,          and after I got no reply, tried to remind them 5 weeks ago,          but have not yet gotten any reply, so I am now opening this          thread here.>>         
>>         >>         >> IMHO, for consistency and credibility, we should either          recognize that Russia is actually controlling Crimea, or we          should update the disputed borders information. As I believe          the general concept of ground truth for admin boundaries was a          good idea, I would tend to the former.>>         
>>         >>         >> I also believe the actual situation has already been          ignored for too long. When the thing is still dynamic or/and          we’re in the middle of a conflict it can be wise to step back          and see for some time how things are evolving, but 4 years are          a lot of time, something like one year would seem more          reasonable.>>         
>>         >>         >> What do you think?>>         
>>         >>         >> Cheers, Martin 
>>           
>>           >> sent from a phone>>           
>>             Begin forwarded message:
>>             
>>           >>           
>>>             >>> From:>>>  Martin Koppenhoefer <>>> dieterdreist at gmail.com <mailto:dieterdreist at gmail.com>>>> >
>>>               >>> Date:>>>  20. August 2018 at 10:42:33 CEST
>>>               >>> To:>>>  >>> data at osmfoundation.org <mailto:data at osmfoundation.org>
>>>               >>> Subject:>>>  >>> DWG policy on Crimea
>>>               
>>>             >>>           
>>           
>>>             >>>                             
>>>               >>>               >>> Dear members of the DWG,>>>               
>>>               >>>               >>> as of this question in the help forum:>>>               
>>>               >>>               >>> https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/65436/what-is-the-current-position-of-the-dataworkinggroup-on-crimea <https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/65436/what-is-the-current-position-of-the-dataworkinggroup-on-crimea>>>>                
>>>               >>>               >>> I kindly invite you to reconsider and eventually                update your position on the situation in Crimea.>>>               
>>>               >>>               >>> As you have stated in 2014, this should not be the                long term way to deal with the situation, and short term                is probably coming to an end. There is clear guidance by                the OSMF board how to deal with disputed boundaries (as                the situation seems to be more stable than some would                have liked).>>>               
>>>               >>>               >>> My motivation is not promoting the Russian point of                view, but to act predictably and consistent wrt sensible                topics.>>>               
>>>               >>>               >>> Thank you,>>>               >>> cheers,>>>               >>> Martin >>>             >>>           
>>         >>       >>       
>>       >>       
>>       >> _______________________________________________talk mailing list>> talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk at openstreetmap.org>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk>>>     
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