[OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

Kathleen Lu kathleen.lu at mapbox.com
Thu Aug 1 16:35:47 UTC 2019


I don't think it's disingenuous at all for Facebook to use their own POIs
instead of OSM's. Wasn't the whole point of the Collective Databases
principle and the Collective Databases Guideline specifically to enable
this type of usage, so that those interested in OSM did not have to make an
"all or nothing" choice?

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 9:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Besides the tech boosterism, another issue is that it's disingenuous
> if Facebook claims to be strongly supporting OSM, while continuing to
> keep their valuable user-provided data in a separate, proprietary
> database.
>
> Facebook and Google have the two best lists of POIs like shops and
> restaurants, and an extensive database of customer photos and reviews
> which they control. While Facebook has decided to use OSM for road,
> street and waterway data (which they couldn't easily have users add),
> they keep this data for themselves. Were Facebook interested in
> improving OSM, they could share their POI data, including when a
> feature was last visited and notes about which feature no longer
> exist. This could add millions more OSM contributors for features like
> shops and restaurants, which are not yet completely mapped even in
> well-developed OSM communities in Europe, and it would be
> revolutionary in Indonesia and Thailand.
>
> Only a few people will every become hobby mappers, adding waterways,
> highways, landuse and such for fun, but every business owner wants to
> see their shop or office on Facebook, so these POIs would be added and
> kept up-to-date by users.
>
> I don't expect Facebook to share this data for free, because a large
> part of their business model is recording your geodata and using this
> to maximize profit for their shareholders, but if they ever decide to
> really prove "we're not that evil", sharing their data could go a long
> way to changing Facebooks poor reputation for corporate responsibility
> and transparency.
>
> Joseph
>
> On 8/1/19, stevea <steveaOSM at softworkers.com> wrote:
> > (I chose the wrong source email address; apologies if anybody gets this
> > twice).
> >
> > Thanks, Jóhannes.  I did try FB's tool myself and was pleasantly
> surprised
> > it does a "looks OK for now" job of how Mikel put it earlier:  "a balance
> > between turbocharged and exploitation."  I hear you as you say that
> > mapwith.ai has, as I described, a comfortable workflow of "AI suggests,
> > human maps, human checks that what is acceptable can be uploaded, human
> > uploads."  That's fine, it does indeed have "a human in the loop" and the
> > human checks for quality, the human is not just being there for the sake
> of
> > being there.  This aspect of "humans, not AI, determine quality" is a
> > critical component of what I am saying.
> >
> > What I believe raised ire here was the BBC botching the "press
> announcement"
> > as a stilted and seemingly uninformed "cheerleading" piece that made AI
> > sound as if it were a "magic bullet" that was going to save mapping in
> OSM
> > somehow.  It isn't (magic) and it won't (though AI is an important tool
> > going forward, especially as it is coupled with human wisdom and a
> hawkish
> > eye towards high quality).  OSM is, and will always be, a
> > human-participating project, with all of the social and "get outdoors and
> > map" project as one (human) might like it to be.  AI can and does help,
> > that's fine, as long as humans are always "in charge."
> >
> > Again, it sounds like there is a lot of agreement here.
> >
> > SteveA
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
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