[OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap
mikel.maron at gmail.com
Fri Jul 26 10:37:42 UTC 2019
>"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salarydepends upon his not understanding it."
Ok it's a pithy quote. Is it possible that however well written, this quote may not always be right? that it's difficult but not impossible to get a man or woman to understand something, despite their position? and that my salary does not depend on me avoiding thinking freely about this project?
Seeing that none of you arguing with me in this thread know me personally, I think it's extremely presumptuous that you think you understand me.
> I think it's unfair to accuse Christoph of being uninformed.
Is it unfair that Christoph accuses me of being in a cult?
I did not accuse Christoph of being uninformed. But the general argument here certainly is -- about the capability of people involved in OSM in a corporate way having no ability to think in another frame; or that even the corporate frame can not encompass other viewpoints, only profit.
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
On Friday, July 26, 2019, 01:18:11 PM GMT+3, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
The most well-know version is from Upton Sinclair's campaign to become
governor of California in the 1930's:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair - See
Upton Sinclair is most famous for writing "The Jungle" as a young man.
> "enough with the division of OSM along these blunt, uninformed lines"
I think it's unfair to accuse Christoph of being uninformed. From what
I've read over the past year, he appears to be one of the few
individuals who are informed about the goings-on between the OSMF
board and corporations, who is not actually a member of either body.
On 7/26/19, Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at gmail.com> wrote:
> From Christoph...
>> The corporate appropriation of OpenStreetMap and the OSM community
>> has meanwhile all the characteristics of a cult .. But i have strong
>> doubts meanwhile that arguing with people who are fully immersed into the
>> belief system of corporate PR regarding OSM is of benefit in most cases.
> Well this is pretty much a statement to end the conversation, isn't it? I
> could say the same "cult" about the knee jerk reaction of the self appointed
> representatives of the "hobby mapper". It does lead me to the same
> conclusion, almost -- which is that there is no point discussing these
> topics with you people here. But where would that get us?
> I for one would not say anything if I did not personally believe it. I am
> not here representing corporate interests (at this very moment I'm writing
> this from the middle of Nairobi's largest slum working on OSM, rather than a
> comfortable room in Europe). You can still draw whatever conclusions about
> me you like.
> For me, enough with the division of OSM along these blunt, uninformed
> From Martin...> Fakeboosts
> good one :)
>> Whoever reads this and does not have deeper insights into the workings of
>> the OSMF must get into the impression that HOT is an official part of the
>> OSMF / OpenStreetMap, i.e. OSM is collaborating with FB.
> Well that very well might be true about perception. But Facebook did not say
> that OSMF was supporting the project. They representing correctly. We all
> here get the difference and understand that HOT is a different organization.
> Making this distinction is not Facebook's problem, but rather HOT and OSMF
> should do a better job explaining the complexity of the whole universe of
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
> On Friday, July 26, 2019, 12:17:38 PM GMT+3, Martin Koppenhoefer
> <dieterdreist at gmail.com> wrote:
> @mikel in Fakeboosts own blog post there is still the misrepresentation of
> the role OSM plays in this project, due to HOT appearing to be an official
> OSM body (by the mere utilization of the OpenStreetMap trademark in their
> company name):
> “The RapiD tool was developed in conjunction with those in the mapping
> community who have been working in this area for many years. Because this
> tool was built with their input, it is already having an impact,” says Tyler
> Radford, the executive director of the Humanitarian OSM Team (HOT), which
> aims to make sure OSM represents all parts of the world."
> The Map With AI team is collaborating with HOT to add more features to
> RapiD. For one step in that process, they’ve integrated RapiD into a
> development branch of HOT Tasking Manager,
> Whoever reads this and does not have deeper insights into the workings of
> the OSMF must get into the impression that HOT is an official part of the
> OSMF / OpenStreetMap, i.e. OSM is collaborating with FB.
> I am not sure if being a "corporate Gold member" already counts as being in
> collaboration with OSMF (likely not, because "collaboration" means "working"
> (labor) together, not just providing funds)
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
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