[OSM-talk] OSM user diary etiquette

Simon Poole simon at poole.ch
Tue Jun 25 10:19:18 UTC 2019

There is a very big difference between "lively debate", and hurling
insults at individuals. Being of a different opinion than our system
administrators and expressing that, if very long in the tooth and
annoying in its repetitiveness is quite OK, and like most I simply
switched to ignoring the individuals posts. Calling people names is off
limits and doesn't need any additional confirmation in a CoC or whatever.


Am 25.06.2019 um 10:45 schrieb Harry Wood:
> I definitely support moderation actions on the diaries (or indeed any
> channel) when somebody steps way out of line.
> > It is unfortunate because this means that quite a few useful comments
> > written by some of you - the main subject was ways of fighting diary
> > spam - were dropped too.
> Do you have the option of *editing* a diary entry to delete sections
> of it, or even delete the whole text?  e.g. leaving a message
> "---This section has been removed because it did not meet our
> community standards----".
> Not saying you should have done so in this case. Just wondering if it
> is an option.
> This would leave the comments. Some of the comments might then lack
> context, but it might still be a better outcome if the discussion was
> useful.
> Weirdly it's also a stronger moderation slap-down. The perpetrator
> suffers the ignominy of this message publicly on display within their
> diary. I've seen this approach a website elsewhere.
> I guess one consideration is that when diaries are moderated away,
> they are actually "soft deleted" whereas *editing* a diary would lose
> the original text.
> Anyway...  on the broader principle. At the risk of bringing back the
> "code of conduct" discussion... If we set out somewhere a set of
> community standards in terms of "be nice to eachother", but also the
> types of topics we expect to appear as OpenStreetMap diaries, what
> would we set out?
> I think we might decide that the standards of behaviour on the diaries
> should be higher than those of the mailing list. I mean the
> counterargument on the mailing list is always the desire to promote a
> "space for lively debate", but diaries are less of a discussion
> medium, more of a broadcast medium. We don't want to disallow people
> putting forth "political" thoughts or manifestos about the project,
> which inevitably will stray into bad-mouthing groups or even
> individuals on occasions, but in general we want diaries to be more
> carefully worded and well thought out. On balance a diary entry should
> be "respectful", "considerate", and "collaborative" ...but I'm quoting
> from the code of conduct now :-)
> We could also say diary entries should "make sense", e.g. minimum
> length. Not just some a few random words. This would allow us to
> delete quite a few weird diary entries from new users which clutter
> things (And they're possibly spammers flagging), but I'd be creating
> more work for moderations with that idea.
> We could also say diary entries should not be used a place to pose a
> question, or engage in communication styles which obviously fit better
> on other channels. For example I saw someone post a diary entry asking
> if the tile servers were currently offline. He argued that this was
> the best way to get attention, which may well be true, but it was an
> obvious misuse of the diaries feature to my mind.
> Harry
> On Tuesday, 25 June 2019, 00:23:34 BST, Frederik Ramm
> <frederik at remote.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am writing this with my DWG hat on.
> The OSM user diaries are not routinely moderated but the DWG has the
> technical means to hide comments or whole posts, and will make use of
> these in extreme situations.
> I am writing to inform you that there as been one such situation, where
> a contributor time and time again over recent months used various
> expletives and insults to belittle the work of others in the project.
> He's been told to stop it numerous times; at one point when told that
> insults don't get him anywhere he said that he disagreed, because he had
> actually got a reaction to an insult. In another situation where he was
> told that his message could be heard better if he weren't wrapping it in
> so much bile, he responded "don't tell me what to do".
> We first tried to only hide those comments that were absolutely
> inacceptable ("viciuos brat", "violent little shit" etc.) but even those
> messages that were factual were always seasoned with a sentence
> explaining how this and that other person was an idiot, amateur, etc.,
> so in the end we just hid a handful of blog entries altogether. We
> wouldn't normally moderate someone for calling someone else an "amateur"
> but if it's framed by constant, stronger abuse then that lowers the bar
> considerably.
> It is unfortunate because this means that quite a few useful comments
> written by some of you - the main subject was ways of fighting diary
> spam - were dropped too.
> As I said, it's a rare exception for us to have to do this; these
> messages, especially because they weren't one-off heat-of-the-moment
> posts but a sustained onslaught, far surpassed in offensiveness anything
> I've seen on this or any other OSM mailing list in recent years.
> I won't say who the user is - those of you who were involved will
> recognize it, and those who weren't probably shouldn't waste any time
> with it.
> Bye
> Frederik
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org
> <mailto:frederik at remote.org>  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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