[OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[James]

Not to mention the additional overhead of conflating two databases to get
something essential like a name

On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 7:57 a.m. Alan Mackie, <aamackie at gmail.com> wrote:

> This seems like a bad idea.
>
> Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is not
> always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a specific
> wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious when it
> comes to trademarks.
>
> We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have verified that
> the signage on the individual locations has actually changed. Depending on
> the brand these could take years to ripple through to the individual
> stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain old branding as part
> of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding changes in the Wikidata
> would likely be over-applied.
>
> Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be carte-blanche
> permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement between
> OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey is
> needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the introduction of
> dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it doesn't even
> have a changeset.
>
> If "duplication"  is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all
> Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing
> contributors to check an independant database before uploading survey
> results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven project.
>
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE <pangose at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> These are valid concerns. See my response to James.
>> If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up our own
>> wikibase installation. See https://www.wbstack.com/
>>
>> It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time.
>>
>> It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's
> resources.
>
> In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into wikidata
>> which is very tied to education and does not accept all our objects that
>> have names currently.
>>
>> In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix than Q
>> for our unique ids.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mateusz Konieczny via talk <talk at openstreetmap.org> skrev: (9 augusti
>> 2020 12:16:33 CEST)
>>>
>>> or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM mappers?
>>> or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them quickly?
>>>
>>> Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by james2432 at gmail.com:
>>>
>>> is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist?
>>>
>>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE, <pangose at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating
>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>>>
>>> The rationale is explained here:
>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655
>>>
>>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well.
>>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit the
>>> names or add name references (through the editors)
>>>
>>> Substantial changes will have to be made:
>>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow.
>>> It could probably be done on the fly.
>>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying
>>> any object.
>>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from wikidata.
>>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata
>>> objects.
>>>
>>> These seems like large burdens to dump on open source developers.
>
>> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We should
>>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how to do
>>> that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask users to
>>> create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that?
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if I have a Wikidata account so this is a non-issue for
> me.
>
>>
>>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM closer
>>> than the islands they are today.
>>>
>>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already
>>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply better
>>> quality, better modeled, better referenced and better protected against
>>> vandalism.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> pangoSE
>>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but to
>>> the wider ecosystem._______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
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>>
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