[OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

pangoSE pangose at riseup.net
Sun Aug 9 12:45:53 UTC 2020


I disagree. With (permanent) unique ids is trivial and the overhead is IMO neglible. 

Its not rocket science to query an API endpoint from any programming language. All our data consumers are already doing this. 

I made a simple map in a few hours that query both overpass and wikidata based on the osmid to find links to images of shelters. See https://github.com/pangoSE/sheltermap

James <james2432 at gmail.com> skrev: (9 augusti 2020 13:59:40 CEST)
>Not to mention the additional overhead of conflating two databases to
>get
>something essential like a name
>
>On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 7:57 a.m. Alan Mackie, <aamackie at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> This seems like a bad idea.
>>
>> Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is not
>> always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a
>specific
>> wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious
>when it
>> comes to trademarks.
>>
>> We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have verified
>that
>> the signage on the individual locations has actually changed.
>Depending on
>> the brand these could take years to ripple through to the individual
>> stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain old branding as
>part
>> of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding changes in the
>Wikidata
>> would likely be over-applied.
>>
>> Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be
>carte-blanche
>> permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement
>between
>> OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey is
>> needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the introduction
>of
>> dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it
>doesn't even
>> have a changeset.
>>
>> If "duplication"  is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all
>> Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing
>> contributors to check an independant database before uploading survey
>> results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven
>project.
>>
>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE <pangose at riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>> These are valid concerns. See my response to James.
>>> If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up our
>own
>>> wikibase installation. See https://www.wbstack.com/
>>>
>>> It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time.
>>>
>>> It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's
>> resources.
>>
>> In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into wikidata
>>> which is very tied to education and does not accept all our objects
>that
>>> have names currently.
>>>
>>> In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix
>than Q
>>> for our unique ids.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Mateusz Konieczny via talk <talk at openstreetmap.org> skrev: (9
>augusti
>>> 2020 12:16:33 CEST)
>>>>
>>>> or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM
>mappers?
>>>> or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them
>quickly?
>>>>
>>>> Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by james2432 at gmail.com:
>>>>
>>>> is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE, <pangose at riseup.net>
>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and
>updating
>>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>>>>
>>>> The rationale is explained here:
>>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655
>>>>
>>>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as
>well.
>>>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit
>the
>>>> names or add name references (through the editors)
>>>>
>>>> Substantial changes will have to be made:
>>>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata
>somehow.
>>>> It could probably be done on the fly.
>>>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when
>displaying
>>>> any object.
>>>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from
>wikidata.
>>>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata
>>>> objects.
>>>>
>>>> These seems like large burdens to dump on open source developers.
>>
>>> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We
>should
>>>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how
>to do
>>>> that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask
>users to
>>>> create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if I have a Wikidata account so this is a non-issue
>for
>> me.
>>
>>>
>>>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM
>closer
>>>> than the islands they are today.
>>>>
>>>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already
>>>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply
>better
>>>> quality, better modeled, better referenced and better protected
>against
>>>> vandalism.
>>>>
>>>> WDYT?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> pangoSE
>>>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but
>to
>>>> the wider ecosystem._______________________________________________
>>>> talk mailing list
>>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>>
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