[OSM-talk] it's not a fake, but "it's complicated"

[Mario Frasca]

Hi Aaron,

thank you for your writing!

On 05/02/2020 23:50, Aaron Young wrote:
> in this instance we slipped up and didn’t communicate well enough.  We are working to improve that now both in Panama and elsewhere

I had a pleasant chat yesterday with Jorge Aguirre, and he insisted in 
explaining that in 2015 Kaart as an organization was very early in its 
learning process.  I suggested adopting/adapting the *Directed Editing 
Guidelines*, and my personal point of view, which I'm sharing now here, 
is that whoever organizes edits should not only follow the global 
guidelines (I like to think of them as "Brexit on World Trade 
Agreements"), but also checks with the local community, if there is any, 
what special agreements rule in the local community.  for Panamá, I 
would like to have such activities listed in a dedicated page in the 
*wiki*.  if you could describe them in Spanish, it would be much better, 
but if you're putting an English language page in the wiki, I'm sure 
there are enough non-Kaart people who would help translate that.

in fact, editing the local activities page in the wiki would be 
sufficient to *alert the local community*, or at least anyone watching 
that page.

On 05/02/2020 23:50, Aaron Young wrote:
> maintain the data to make sure it is as good as it can be, which is what initiated this conversation

good news Kaart collecting experience and building on it.  may I suggest 
you also help local communities make their rules more explicit.  to make 
a concrete example, again for Panamá, did not agree on (did not discuss) 
*how to categorize highways*, nor do we know where to collect 'ref' values.

we also hardly have any factual information about rural bus routes.  why 
is this relevant?  a road on which you have a regular service, however 
crummy, can hardly qualify as "unclassified", but would be promoted to 
"tertiary" at the least.  could serve as reference.  also, knowing what 
kind of car runs the service would help with the "smoothness" tag.  
collecting this information needs to happen locally, and I don't manage 
to picture the difficulties and the costs associated to doing this.

[[as a complete *side thread*, a concrete example: I recently tracked a 
"chiva" only doing a short round trip from Santa Fé, travelling through 
El Pantano, which cost me $4.  I uploaded the trace as private, that was 
a mistake. https://www.openstreetmap.org/trace/3198854/data, one of the 
GPS lost power on the way back, I should upload the data from the other 
device.  with some extra cheap GPS devices (I own 5, not all equally 
good), and some official-looking piece of paper from an organization, 
one could spend half a day distributing phones running OSMTracker to bus 
drivers and collecting them when they're back.  and moving to the next 
"piquera" for a different round. rural routes here may come back after 
more than 5 hours, and I know of routes where a one-way ticket costs $8.  ]]

I am considering how to describe the above, but did not yet create the 
relevant wiki page/paragraph.  since Kaart is helping reclassify roads 
(in Panamá), it would be nice if we had some agreements on how to do 
that.  and given we did not have it yet, in Panamá, it would be nice if 
you publicly offered your thoughts for discussion, so we can reach an 
agreement we can describe and follow.

for *old edits*, I would consider very helpful if someone within Kaart 
would receive notifications on changesets produced under the Kaart 
flag.  see BlueSombra, and all other Kaart abandoned accounts, with all 
the comments still waiting for a reply.

a point which I'm afraid has been missed: the reply I received by Vigo 
gave me the impression "past is past, and we don't look back (but you 
may tide up our mess)".  I understand that you're not focusing on 
mapping businesses any more, and I realize it's too much work for 
anybody, to look up the mess and clean it up, but there must be other 
ways to *profile yourself as responsible for the data you added*, even 
if it was while you were early in your learning process.

ciao,

Mario

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