[OSM-talk] IME no proposals needed | Re: Creation of "Data Items" by bot for undocumented tags
Warin
61sundowner at gmail.com
Wed Feb 19 07:27:55 UTC 2020
There are those who;
think the proposal process it the only way to create wiki pages.
there are those who degenerate wiki pages with few uses, to the extent
of editing those wiki pages to discourage use.
'Any tags you like' is one mantra ... but documenting them in the wiki
and leaving them to evolve looks to beyond some.
On 19/2/20 5:33 pm, Rory McCann wrote:
> I don't know what your experience with the OSM wiki is, but I've
> created new wiki pages for new tags, without bothering with proposal
> pages. When has anyone told you that you need to do that? Did someone
> write that down somewhere? Maybe that should be corrected. Do you have
> links to where you saw that "rule"?
>
> To anyone reading this who is unsure, please feel free to edit the
> wiki. 🙂 We don't have this silly rules requiring proposal pages (as
> many have pointed out).
>
> (I also don't like making the wiki hard to edit for non technical
> people. Think of the diversity concerns! 🙂)
>
> On 19 February 2020 00:14:21 CET, Yuri Astrakhan
> <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It is very strange that we, on one hand, allow anyone to create
> any kind of tags (just type it in), and on the other we create so
> many hurdles to document it (we refuse to allow a wiki page about
> an item, but instead demand that each key page go through a
> proposals process, approve it, etc). I believe this is a
> ridiculous situation solvable with the data items. If I, the
> editor, create a new tag, I should have a way to type in a short
> textual description (one/two sentences) explaining what that tag
> is. Without knowing how to create wiki pages or data item pages
> or using the right templates, or even knowing which fields to fill
> out where. Data items allow for that.
>
> When a data item is created automatically, it makes the process of
> adding such documentation very straightforward -- e.g. if one uses
> iD editor, they simply expand the (i) button next to the tag,
> click edit, and type in the description.
>
> Moreover, it should be possible to do so directly from iD, without
> going to another page. The eventual goal is to make it simple to
> add such descriptions __without__ leaving the current editing tool
> (iD/JOSM/...) and without visiting the wiki. These tools will be
> able to view other metadata as well -- e.g. if this tag should be
> usable on a way/node in a consistent way, regardless of the
> language of the user.
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 5:54 PM Andrew Hain
> <andrewhainosm at hotmail.co.uk <mailto:andrewhainosm at hotmail.co.uk>>
> wrote:
>
> I strongly disagree.
>
> It is perfectly useful to document the existence of tags in
> the database with data items. For example one was created for
> the key sub_sea:type
> [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q4506] and it has
> been possible to add this it is a discardable tag that the
> main OSM editors remove when editing. While it is possible in
> principle to add a long form tag documentation page, and
> indeed the presence of the data item is a record that one may
> be worth writing, it needs a different set of skills to
> research its content. As such the data item and others like it
> are useful on their own.
>
> --
> Andrew
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
> <mailto:joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* 18 February 2020 17:28
> *To:* osm <talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk at openstreetmap.org>>
> *Subject:* [OSM-talk] Creation of "Data Items" by bot for
> undocumented tags
> Data Items should not be created by bot for undocumented tags.
>
> According to
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_items#Item_Creation_Process
> the Data Items (aka "Wikibase" or "Wiki Data items") are
> automatically
> created by a bot, even before a tag is documented, if a tag has a
> certain standard format and more than 10 uses in the database.
>
> The data item is created in this case with the text "‎Created
> a new
> Item: Auto-updating from Wiki pages" - e.g.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Item:Q19947&action=history
>
> This is confusing to users. For example, Item:Q19947 above,
> "landuse=research" was created before there was a wiki page. Then
> yesterday a user documented the tag with a page, but did not
> understand why there was already a data item:
>
> "Wikibase entry: evidence for preceding deletion? I've just
> created
> landuse=research, but the data item
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Item:Q19947&action=history
> was already existing in December '19. How was the data item then
> created?"
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki=#Wikibase_entry:_evidence_for_preceding_deletion.3F
>
> Besided the potential confusion caused by creating these items by
> bots, I think it is a bad idea to encourage wiki users to start
> editing these data items without first creating an actual
> human-readable wiki page to document the tag.
>
> In theory, the "Data Items" can be useful if they properly
> document
> how tags are used, in a way that is easier for computers to
> handle,
> but this only works if the data is maintained and updated.
>
> Creating a new wiki page (by human) will alert other users via
> "Special:Recent" and "Special:NewPages", while the stream of items
> created by bots is too much for humans to maintain, and the
> page names
> are too obscure (Item: Q19947 is meaningless) to be scanned by
> humans.
>
> Therefore, I propose that Yurikbot be changed to only add new data
> items for documented tags which already have a wiki page in at
> least
> one language. I do not see a benefit to creating date items for
> undocumented tags.
>
> Joseph Eisenberg
>
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>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
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