[OSM-talk] Java and JOSM

John Whelan jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 12 14:12:03 UTC 2021

Oracle's involvement in OpenJDK was noted by myself as well.

JAVA is an interpreted language.  The advantage is the code will run on 
any architecture.  Practically any native complied language is faster 
than an interpreted language.

In non technical terms it works by submitting each instruction to an 
interpreter which then produces machine code. A complied language 
converts the source code to machine code as a separate step  before the 
program is run so you don't need to wait for the interpretation. You can 
also spend more time optimising the machine code.  These days there are 
compilers that will compile JAVA but then it is no longer an interpreted 

Cheerio John

Marc Gemis wrote on 4/12/2021 10:00 AM:
> Sorry to spoil the party, but while OpenJDK is an open-source project, 
> the main contributor is still Oracle.
> As for the performance, there is the GraalVM project [1]. That makes a 
> native executable from Java. It has the possibility to remove all 
> libraries that one does not need. It makes executables that startup 
> very fast.
> However, in some cases, the generated native binary is slower than a 
> traditional Java program, because the JIT does "magic" at runtime to 
> improve the executed code.
> Furthermore, for the performance of Java vs. C++, see e.g. [2]. I do 
> not believe that any C++ program is automatically faster than Java.
> [1] https://www.graalvm.org/
> [2] https://stackoverflow.com/a/153900
> On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 9:05 PM Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us 
> <mailto:clifford at snowandsnow.us>> wrote:
>     John,
>     Excuse me if I missed the point of your post. I use OpenJDK to run
>     JOSM. OpenJDK is completely open source. JOSM runs just fine in
>     OpenJDK. A while back I did have an application that would only
>     work on Oracle's Java forcing me to install software to point each
>     application to the desired java version. Since that last
>     application upgraded I'm now completely free of Oracle's java. I'm
>     a Linux user but OpenJDK should work under Windows or Mac.
>     Oracle's java might have some performance advantages but it's
>     nothing that hinders my mapping.
>     I would encourage you and your mapathon users to switch to OpenJDK.
>     Best,
>     Clifford
>     On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 11:17 AM John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>         The opinion expressed on Oracle is my personal one based on
>         dealing with them over ten years in a corporate environment.
>         In my experience with mapathons where there is a requirement
>         to map buildings and the JOSM buildings_tool plugin would be
>         invaluable the policy of a number of companies and government
>         agencies of not to allowing JAVA to be installed means those
>         mappers who have brought work lap tops to the maparthon are
>         unable to run JOSM which means the quality of buildings suffers.
>         I don't think there are any lies in the above statements.
>         Realistically most programmers would agree that the Microsoft
>         Visual development environment is one of the most productive
>         no matter what language you are developing in.
>         Microsoft of thirty or forty years ago had security problems. 
>         I don't dispute that and recommended against the use of a
>         number of their products based on security concerns. You may
>         not remember the Word Macro problem when a document could run
>         an macro on opening.  Very easy to load in malware.  We went a
>         different route at the time and avoided the problems.
>         Today Microsoft takes security very seriously, little things
>         like windows update is sent out in a torrent like environment
>         which means no matter what government would like installed on
>         a particular machine it can't be done as there is no way to
>         target a particular machine.
>         My ideal OSM editor would native code rather than running in a
>         emulator. You don't need the same amount of hardware for a
>         given level of performance.  You never know you might even get
>         a decent level of performance on a Raspberry Pi.
>         Written using Visual Studio, it's very good on the programmer
>         productivity side.
>         The way in would be someone would write a basic editor and
>         then over time add functionality.  I'm sure 10% of JOSM is
>         used much more often than the rest of it but that is just day
>         dreaming.  I'm quite certain that JOSM has evolved over time
>         by many different authors.  Something rewritten in C# might be
>         clearer to understand.
>         "Ask Oracle Java Webstart users to switch to OpenWebStart"
>         came up in JOSM and I was wondering if that meant we could get
>         rid of Oracle JAVA. There are products such as Kotlin which
>         can replace JAVA completely.
>         Anyway time to draw the discussion to a close.  I asked the
>         question and found out that JAVA webstart is something
>         different to JAVA and we will agree to disagree on whether I
>         lie or not.
>         Cheerio John
>         Tomas Straupis wrote on 4/4/2021 11:48 AM:
>>         2021-04-04, sk 18:04, John Whelan rašė:
>>             Purely I don't trust Oracle, JAVA is not permitted on
>>             many corporate or US government systems for security reasons.
>>          Why are you trying to spread this lie again an again?
>>         Microsoft is far worse on security and has been taken to
>>         court for bad practices numerous times.
>>         And it would be fun to see ArcGIS being banned for security
>>         reasons (its server runs on java) 😃
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