[OSM-talk] Java and JOSM

Marc Gemis marc.gemis at gmail.com
Mon Apr 12 14:22:20 UTC 2021


Java is not a purely interpreted language, it uses a Just-in-time
compilation. [1]


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation


On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 4:12 PM John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oracle's involvement in OpenJDK was noted by myself as well.
>
> JAVA is an interpreted language.  The advantage is the code will run on
> any architecture.  Practically any native complied language is faster than
> an interpreted language.
>
> In non technical terms it works by submitting each instruction to an
> interpreter which then produces machine code. A complied language converts
> the source code to machine code as a separate step  before the program is
> run so you don't need to wait for the interpretation. You can also spend
> more time optimising the machine code.  These days there are compilers that
> will compile JAVA but then it is no longer an interpreted language.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> Marc Gemis wrote on 4/12/2021 10:00 AM:
>
> Sorry to spoil the party, but while OpenJDK is an open-source project, the
> main contributor is still Oracle.
>
> As for the performance, there is the GraalVM project [1]. That makes a
> native executable from Java. It has the possibility to remove all libraries
> that one does not need. It makes executables that startup very fast.
> However, in some cases, the generated native binary is slower than a
> traditional Java program, because the JIT does "magic" at runtime to
> improve the executed code.
>
> Furthermore, for the performance of Java vs. C++, see e.g. [2]. I do not
> believe that any C++ program is automatically faster than Java.
>
>
>
> [1] https://www.graalvm.org/
> [2] https://stackoverflow.com/a/153900
>
> On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 9:05 PM Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
> wrote:
>
>> John,
>> Excuse me if I missed the point of your post. I use OpenJDK to run JOSM.
>> OpenJDK is completely open source. JOSM runs just fine in OpenJDK. A while
>> back I did have an application that would only work on Oracle's Java
>> forcing me to install software to point each application to the desired
>> java version. Since that last application upgraded I'm now completely free
>> of Oracle's java. I'm a Linux user but OpenJDK should work under Windows or
>> Mac. Oracle's java might have some performance advantages but it's nothing
>> that hinders my mapping.
>>
>> I would encourage you and your mapathon users to switch to OpenJDK.
>>
>> Best,
>> Clifford
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 11:17 AM John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The opinion expressed on Oracle is my personal one based on dealing with
>>> them over ten years in a corporate environment.
>>>
>>> In my experience with mapathons where there is a requirement to map
>>> buildings and the JOSM buildings_tool plugin would be invaluable the policy
>>> of a number of companies and government agencies of not to allowing JAVA to
>>> be installed means those mappers who have brought work lap tops to the
>>> maparthon are unable to run JOSM which means the quality of buildings
>>> suffers.
>>>
>>> I don't think there are any lies in the above statements.
>>>
>>> Realistically most programmers would agree that the Microsoft Visual
>>> development environment is one of the most productive no matter what
>>> language you are developing in.
>>>
>>> Microsoft of thirty or forty years ago had security problems.  I don't
>>> dispute that and recommended against the use of a number of their products
>>> based on security concerns. You may not remember the Word Macro problem
>>> when a document could run an macro on opening.  Very easy to load in
>>> malware.  We went a different route at the time and avoided the problems.
>>>
>>> Today Microsoft takes security very seriously, little things like
>>> windows update is sent out in a torrent like environment which means no
>>> matter what government would like installed on a particular machine it
>>> can't be done as there is no way to target a particular machine.
>>>
>>> My ideal OSM editor would native code rather than running in a emulator.
>>> You don't need the same amount of hardware for a given level of
>>> performance.  You never know you might even get a decent level of
>>> performance on a Raspberry Pi.
>>>
>>> Written using Visual Studio, it's very good on the programmer
>>> productivity side.
>>>
>>> The way in would be someone would write a basic editor and then over
>>> time add functionality.  I'm sure 10% of JOSM is used much more often than
>>> the rest of it but that is just day dreaming.  I'm quite certain that JOSM
>>> has evolved over time by many different authors.  Something rewritten in C#
>>> might be clearer to understand.
>>>
>>> "Ask Oracle Java Webstart users to switch to OpenWebStart" came up in
>>> JOSM and I was wondering if that meant we could get rid of Oracle JAVA.
>>> There are products such as Kotlin which can replace JAVA completely.
>>>
>>> Anyway time to draw the discussion to a close.  I asked the question and
>>> found out that JAVA webstart is something different to JAVA and we will
>>> agree to disagree on whether I lie or not.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tomas Straupis wrote on 4/4/2021 11:48 AM:
>>>
>>> 2021-04-04, sk 18:04, John Whelan rašė:
>>>
>>>> Purely I don't trust Oracle, JAVA is not permitted on many corporate or
>>>> US government systems for security reasons.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Why are you trying to spread this lie again an again? Microsoft is far
>>> worse on security and has been taken to court for bad practices numerous
>>> times.
>>>
>>>   And it would be fun to see ArcGIS being banned for security reasons
>>> (its server runs on java) 😃
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing listtalk at openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from Postbox <https://www.postbox-inc.com>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> @osm_washington
>> www.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> --
> Sent from Postbox <https://www.postbox-inc.com>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20210412/1365b3f1/attachment.htm>


More information about the talk mailing list