[OSM-talk] Persian/Arabian Gulf Tagging

[Mostafa Ahangarha]

On 12/9/21 7:41 AM, Abdullah Abdulrhman wrote:
> Hello Mustafa
> - This waterbody is not like other seas, and it is a gulf overlooking 
> the neighboring countries and therefore their societies and states are 
> more entitled to others to put the name.

May elaborate more? Still I don't see any difference between this and 
other international water bodies.

> - We are not a minority, in fact, the Arab countries have more 
> population than Iran and have longer coastlines too [2], and our actions 
> are not 'stupid' or according to the opinions of individuals, but rather 
> reflect the correct reality on the ground. We have the right to label as 
> you have the right. Li Yaqo suggested the A\B solution that guarantees 
> our right and yours.

I didn't talk about majority/minority. If want to enter such 
discussions, I can bring other criteria which are much stronger. I don't 
want to go that way and I do request you also to not get into such play.

> - Historical or international names are not binding on us as a local 
> community, but the common and used name is what should be on the name 
> card, historical and others have each other tags.

Regarding historical name I would suggest you to go and read wiki. There 
are two types of tags: old_name and dated names, indicating the name of 
the feature has been such during certain period of time. This implies 
that the name has permanently changed after that date. Basically this 
tag means this particular name is not used anymore. It could be a city 
name for example. This is not relevant here.

Here when we are talking about historical or international name, we are 
not talking about the different name used historically or 
internationally. The point here is that the original name (Persian Gulf) 
has historical and international references as well.

Frankly if anyone wants to talk about vandalism, changing Persian Gulf 
to anything else should be considered as the example not the opposite!

> - We are not moving with a political agenda, and if we were, we would 
> not have accepted the A/B solution (because the Persian name is not 
> recognized at all in our society).

The political move simply is to push this uncommon name into public 
sphere. Then it can be come the norm to push it for other changes. This 
is clear. I would suggest to stop vandalism in Persian Gulf and if you 
really believe the world should call this int. water body anything else, 
do it in political sphere not here. If you could convince them then I 
think we need to sit and reconsider what should be the value of the name 
tag.

> - The solution to remove the name will not stop the problems because the 
> nationalist vandalists will not stop adding their name to the name tag.

I think we can have some solution for it if there be any will to do it. 
But frankly I am going to even give up on this idea. The solution 
demands some honesty and respect from parties that I have serious doubt 
on it.

Finally, to me, vandalism is changing the name tag from Persian Gulf not 
not the opposite. Disregarding historical and internationally accepted 
name cannot be considered a genuine act.

I appreciate your language in the last email and I hope it continues 
like this. Bringing baseless blames and claims against Iranian OSM 
community is not going to be constructive. We here are mostly 
independent volunteers and try to do our best to keep things in right 
order. The same way I cannot blame you for some stupid action of a 
random account against something in Iran, you also cannot blame us for 
same action there. If one day I raised a claim against Arab community 
for harming map in Iran, consider it might be some play from my side to 
engineer the social sphere against you and in my favor.

We are responsible for what is being mapped the same amount you are. 
Nobody has more responsibility then the other unless having some other 
privileges. If we are simply map contributors, then lets revise the way 
we should communicate and handle things happening around.

> -- 
> Regards,
> Mostafa Ahangarha
> 


-- 
Regards,
Mostafa Ahangarha