[OSM-talk] An open letter to OSMF board members.

[Victor Shcherb]

Hi All,

I would like to focus on the other point, please let's not misuse the Map
because we have other needs!

Unfortunately, https://www.openstreetmap.org/ doesn't offer in a good way
- *POI overlays / POI search categories*

But it doesn't mean that we sould pollute OSM-Carto to display all that
data! Let's not forget that Map firstly is about finding a location and
orientation and it certainly doesn't require certain businesses / parcels /
garbage bins or even some trees to be displayed.

The trick is that we all want our work to be visible! Unfortunately it's
not possible without the right apps and tools. So we need to
strongly coordinate the limited forces of OSMF and developer teams, that's
why I strongly disagree with the definition of "democratic process".

Development should be very strict & hierarchical, management election could
follow democratic process either direct or indirect democracy.

Best Regards,
Victor

On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 19:13, Włodzimierz Bartczak <
wlodzimierz.bartczak at openstreetmap.pl> wrote:

> Let me begin by responding to Frederic's voice in this discussion. Mainly
> because I have tremendous respect for his contributions to the project. His
> help was invaluable in removing the vandalism we had problems with in
> Poland.
> Therefore, I think you have not fully understood what is driving me in
> provoking this discussion and the fault lies with me. I will try to express
> myself better and by the way answer collectively.
> 1) I am not interested in whether parcels, forest springs or other POIs
> will be displayed in Carto. The presented problems arose during the project
> of mapping parcel machines in Poland, but feel free to place any other
> object instead of parcel machines. This just illustrates the problem.
> 2) In my opinion, the main problem of Carto is that it doesn't have clear
> goals to fulfill. I agree that sometimes it is overloaded. Unfortunately,
> currently no one is discussing what it should contain, not to mention its
> implementation.
> 3) Nowhere did I say that someone should be paid to develop it.
> 4) The Carto is a collective effort of editors and its creation should be
> a reflection of one of the most democratic communities, OSM. Ask yourselves
> if this is the case.
>
> The discussion I've had and the statements that have emerged make it clear
> that we as a community have a problem here.
>
> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
>
> śr., 1 cze 2022 o 01:28 Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> napisał(a):
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think I've said that in one of those endless diary discussions -
>> almost everyone who complains about something in openstreetmap-carto is
>> just unhappy that they don't get their pet feature rendered.
>>
>> In order to provide acceptable cartography, massive gatekeeping is
>> required on the part of openstreetmap-carto maintainers. For every new
>> feature they accept, they should really throw old two old features,
>> otherwise the map becomes everything else but a map.
>>
>> (We had a map style once where everyone could add their own features in
>> SVN, with nobody doing any gatekeeping. Guess how that turned out.)
>>
>> I'm happy to listen to anyone who has any critique of
>> openstreetmap-carto but NOT TO PEOPLE WHO ARE UNHAPPY BECAUSE THEIR
>> FEATURE DID NOT GET RENDERED.
>>
>> If you are one of those people who are unhappy because their feature did
>> not get rendered, I will assume that any other criticism you have to
>> offer (other than that your feature did not get rendered) is just trying
>> to get revenge.
>>
>> If you're trying to abuse the code-of-conduct system to bully people in
>> the hope of ultimately getting your pet feature rendered, then shame on
>> you - this is not what a code of conduct is for.
>>
>> As for replacing the maintainers - if I understand you correctly you're
>> asking the board to pay people to do the maintenance. I would agree to
>> that if that maintenance is guided by the principle I mentioned above -
>> for every additional feature they accept, throw out two old features.
>>
>> Because if what you're asking is for the board to pay money in order to
>> have more mellow maintainers who will happily accept a 348th crappy icon
>> just so that some niche interest group can have their feature "on the
>> main map" then that would be making OSM worse not better.
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Włodzimierz Bartczak
>
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