[OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] The OSM Applet - let's ditch it for JOSM (was:Mapping Reading, some impressions)
Andy Robinson
Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk
Tue Sep 5 10:40:03 BST 2006
Yes we should be careful here not to tar the two issues with the same brush.
The editing interface while clunky does on the whole work as a starting
point and anyone with more than a casual interest probably finds JOSM or
whatever and moves on. I think the suggestion to move the focus away from
directly accessing the editing applet is a good idea as it offers an
opportunity to provide information on the various options (and their
limitations) before a newcomer commits.
With respect to the "view" platform we have a different set of needs and
arguments. I'm sure we are turning away new and potential users right now
just because we cannot show them any coherent and quick mapping. Persevere
with it and yes it can be found but that's of course no use for the new user
visiting the homepage for the first time. I think we should focus on that
aspect before we get too carried away trying to fix the editing side. The
editing side is clearly working ok (if not great) right now as the volume of
data being put in still rises in an upward trend each month.
What I'd like to know is what if anything is the initial result (for the end
user visiting OSM) from Ruby on Rails (RoR).
I'm assuming RoR is only going to give the project a better web framework on
which to develop a more coherent OSM platform. It's not actually going to
give us a new map view on day one for instance. Am I right in that
assumption?
If so then the next step is surely to get a fast slick Chris Schmidt style
slippy map interface on the home page using a weekly (or whatever) static
export of the data. Slick map views don't IMO need to be using active data
if they are being viewed by new users or those who have no editing interest,
though I note the real interest from everyone in new users being able to
contribute some local data quickly and easily but we shouldn't jump the gun
on that.
In the meantime the suggestion to shift focus from the current homepage to
the wiki homepage is perhaps a good one. It takes the heat and whinging away
from the current slippy map and allows some breathing space for improvement
under RoR.
I guess we all need to learn to do some coding. Each of us who have spent
time producing static rendering have probably been tweaking the code for
Osmarender so all of us could probably benefit from learning more code.
For my part I'll pledge to learn Ruby over the coming weeks, I have the
documentation, I just need to spend the time, time I could be mapping but
clearly I should consider a change in focus for the good of the project and
its support. Perhaps others would like to pledge in a similar way?
Can I ask who out there with the project are traditional website developers?
I think we could do with a competition to design a new project homepage. The
basic look and format that is. No reason why someone with graphical
experience and a static shot of the suggested look should couldn't
contribute either, someone else can turn that into html/xml/css or whatever
is needed. Doing this might throw up what we really want our first time
users to see instead of a Landsat image of the globe.
Cheers
Andy
Andy Robinson
Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk
>-----Original Message-----
>From: talk-bounces at openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
>bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tom Chance
>Sent: 05 September 2006 10:03 AM
>To: talk at openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] The OSM Applet - let's ditch it for JOSM
>(was:Mapping Reading, some impressions)
>
>Ahoy,
>
>On Tuesday 05 September 2006 09:51, Tom Carden wrote:
>> On 04/09/06, Tom Chance <tom at acrewoods.net> wrote:
>> > The web applet sucks.
>>
>> Speaking as the person who wrote the initial version of the current
>> applet, can I just say that the continued trashing of it on this list
>> is tiresome, offensive, and not constructive.
>
>I did preface my email with an apology for whining, and a note that I'm
>sure
>you and others have worked really hard to get the applet up to the state
>it's
>in today. It's an impressive piece of work. But I wanted to give my honest
>impressions as a newcomer; myself and several others used it leading up to
>and since the mapping weekend and thought "hmm, that sucks". If I had the
>time & coding skills I might try and do something about it.
>
>
>> It seems that for 99% of people actually actively mapping, JOSM is the
>> main tool of choice (no offense to other editor writers). How about
>> we ditch the applet and put a page about JOSM on the edit tab?
>> Download links, how to navigate to the area you were just viewing, a
>> full tutorial, etc. I don't think at the moment it would hurt OSM one
>> bit if JOSM became an 'official' client and there was no web-based
>> editing solution.
>
>I'm not so sure. Maybe putting a prominent link to a good page about JOSM
>would be an alternative?
>
>However, the problem with the applet for me is as much its inability (or
>unwillingness) to display OSM data in the view module [1]. Perhaps
>replacing
>the edit tab with JOSM would help somebody focus on the view module in some
>obscure way?
>
>Regards,
>Tom
>
>[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?lat=51.445&lon=-0.9685&zoom=11
>
>--
>The task of critique is not to denounce the ideals, but to show their
>transformation into ideologies, and to challenge the ideology in the
>name of the betrayed ideal (Fromm - Beyond The Chains Of Illusion)
>
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