[OSM-dev] surveillance cams not shown in any render

Eddy Petrișor eddy.petrisor at gmail.com
Fri Dec 12 14:32:02 GMT 2008

2008/12/12 D Tucny <d at tucny.com>:
> 2008/12/12 Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor at gmail.com>
>> 2008/12/11 Ulf Lamping <ulf.lamping at googlemail.com>:
>> > Eddy Petrișor schrieb:
>> >>
>> >> Solution 1: add an extra tag traffic which can be "yes" for such
>> >> cameras
>> >>
>> >> Solution 2: new value for man_made:  man_made="traffic_surveillance"
>> >> for such cameras
>> >>
>> >
>> > Solution 3: Use highway=speed_camera which is already used ~500 times
>> > and
>> > also will show up at least in JOSM.
>> And what happens for intersections that are both surveilled and do
>> have traffic lights?
>> You just add another distinct node just for that?
> Yes, one for the location of the CCTV camera sounds good...
>> Also, I think the idea to call it *speed* camera is not that great
>> since it can detect/trigger/be used for other traffic-related fines,
>> such as illegal overtakes, level crossing related illegalities, etc.
> Are you sure? Typically there are two types of camera, those that are used
> for automatic recording of offenses, speed cameras, red light cameras,
> etc... and then there are CCTV cameras for surveillance and monitoring of
> traffic, typically recorded but manually operated...

Is there a need to have 2 different values for those types? I think
that it would be better if an extra tag would be used to make that
distinction. In fact, as a driver you'd be more aware that you should
be extra-careful not to accidentally break the law, no matter the
local surveillance type.

So I think this pair would do the trick.

k="highway" v="traffic_surveillance"
k="surveillance" v="manual/speed/automatic/red_light/all"

>> And why, if is already used, is not documented on the Map_Features
>> page? Is a discussion as this one necessary first?
> The Map Features page doesn't document everything that is widely used, it
> doesn't even document everything that is rendered... There are many proposed
> tags that are widely used but haven't made it on to Map Features, there are
> some tags on Map Features that are very rarely used... There are more tags
> that don't appear as proposed tags or on Map Features but have been used
> widely... Whether a positive or a negative thing, individuals thoughts on it
> vary, tags are free text, you could invent your own tag and use it as you
> saw fit for anything you wanted, but you wouldn't have to document it,
> renders wouldn't have to support it...

Of course, but I'd rather have documented things/situations that match
any of these:
- are commonly used (which the current page seems to cover quite well)
- are likely to be used in exceptional situations but aren't clearly
documented (sometimes documented on other pages with or without links
from the Feture page)
- are likely to raise questions for newbies (sometimes documented
directly on that page)

"Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein

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