[OSM-dev] surveillance cams not shown in any render

D Tucny d at tucny.com
Fri Dec 12 14:54:00 GMT 2008

2008/12/12 Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor at gmail.com>

> 2008/12/12 D Tucny <d at tucny.com>:
> > 2008/12/12 Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> 2008/12/11 Ulf Lamping <ulf.lamping at googlemail.com>:
> >> > Eddy Petrișor schrieb:
> >> >>
> >> >> Solution 1: add an extra tag traffic which can be "yes" for such
> >> >> cameras
> >> >>
> >> >> Solution 2: new value for man_made:  man_made="traffic_surveillance"
> >> >> for such cameras
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Solution 3: Use highway=speed_camera which is already used ~500 times
> >> > and
> >> > also will show up at least in JOSM.
> >>
> >> And what happens for intersections that are both surveilled and do
> >> have traffic lights?
> >> You just add another distinct node just for that?
> >
> > Yes, one for the location of the CCTV camera sounds good...
> >
> >>
> >> Also, I think the idea to call it *speed* camera is not that great
> >> since it can detect/trigger/be used for other traffic-related fines,
> >> such as illegal overtakes, level crossing related illegalities, etc.
> >
> > Are you sure? Typically there are two types of camera, those that are
> used
> > for automatic recording of offenses, speed cameras, red light cameras,
> > etc... and then there are CCTV cameras for surveillance and monitoring of
> > traffic, typically recorded but manually operated...
> Is there a need to have 2 different values for those types? I think
> that it would be better if an extra tag would be used to make that
> distinction. In fact, as a driver you'd be more aware that you should
> be extra-careful not to accidentally break the law, no matter the
> local surveillance type.

I'd suggest that surveillance cameras or CCTV should be grouped together and
enforcement snapshot capturing cameras relating only to roads should be
grouped together... I'm sure there are plenty of privacy enthusiasts that
would love to make a map of CCTV coverage allowing them to walk in it's
shadows, so, they could go with the surveillance tag and make a map using
that, also, I'm sure there are people who'd like to break traffic laws, so
they could make a map of enforcement cameras to allow them to know where
they could be caught by an automatic law enforcement device...

I'd suggest that surveillance and enforcement are sufficiently different
that they are split...

> So I think this pair would do the trick.
> k="highway" v="traffic_surveillance"
> k="surveillance" v="manual/speed/automatic/red_light/all"
> >> And why, if is already used, is not documented on the Map_Features
> >> page? Is a discussion as this one necessary first?
> >
> > The Map Features page doesn't document everything that is widely used, it
> > doesn't even document everything that is rendered... There are many
> proposed
> > tags that are widely used but haven't made it on to Map Features, there
> are
> > some tags on Map Features that are very rarely used... There are more
> tags
> > that don't appear as proposed tags or on Map Features but have been used
> > widely... Whether a positive or a negative thing, individuals thoughts on
> it
> > vary, tags are free text, you could invent your own tag and use it as you
> > saw fit for anything you wanted, but you wouldn't have to document it,
> > renders wouldn't have to support it...
> Of course, but I'd rather have documented things/situations that match
> any of these:
> - are commonly used (which the current page seems to cover quite well)
> - are likely to be used in exceptional situations but aren't clearly
> documented (sometimes documented on other pages with or without links
> from the Feture page)
> - are likely to raise questions for newbies (sometimes documented
> directly on that page)

I'd love a document entitled 'How to map - A tag for every circumstance, all
in full detail with illustrations!'... But... Such a thing a) doesn't exist
and b) would be virtually impossible to put together and maintain with the
flexibility of tagging in OSM... You're welcome to try if you want to
though... ;)

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