[HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!

john whelan jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 28 12:15:19 UTC 2015


On the wiki page it refers to *"JOSM Style 'HOT-OSM-Validation'"* does this
refer to the HDM style?

Thanks John

On 28 April 2015 at 06:44, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:

> NIck and I made this wikipage about it:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>
> I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job and
> task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on the
> motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area and
> make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not correctly
> done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and republish
> the job.
> Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and
> - clean everything with the validator
> - add mssing objects
> - improve the data consistency (especially the road network)
> - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network,
> according to the agreed scheme)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Severin
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
>> Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data. Not
>> only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do it.
>> We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate, please
>> do.
>>
>> I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such huge
>> activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and assure
>> we develop appropriate tools to support such activations.
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>>  *De :* Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
>> *À :* "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04
>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an
>> "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access
>> to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this
>> status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of
>> the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task
>> (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Severin
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Fellow mappers,
>>
>> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a
>> critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes
>> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better
>> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof,
>> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain
>> from contributing.
>>
>> Heather already started drafting training support.  When we circulate the
>> tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link to
>> local community's group for newbies to find help.  People also wanted to
>> create screencast for specific tasks.
>>
>> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during
>> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually
>> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some
>> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to
>> participate in a project others criticize:
>>
>> - Are the maps actually being used?
>> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or
>> incomplete?
>> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
>>
>> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community
>> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to
>> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you
>> shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously
>> to make HOT even more awesome.
>>
>> Best,
>> clkao
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <pedrito1414 at googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT
>> Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest
>> to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is great.
>> I know many of us started during an emergency.
>>
>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was
>> firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are
>> right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So,
>> I started another email chain about training help.
>>
>> Step by step,
>>
>> heather
>>
>> Heather Leson
>> heatherleson at gmail.com
>> Twitter: HeatherLeson
>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long
>> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great
>> job. They were in the top list of contributors.
>>
>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well the
>> new contributors.
>>
>> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make to
>> our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and assure
>> we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce quality
>> mapping.
>>
>> regard
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>>  *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
>> *À :* hot at openstreetmap.org
>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad, but
>> some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can also do is
>> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
>> download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area and just check
>> the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even just a few people
>> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.
>>
>> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
>> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
>> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
>> other mappers.
>>
>> - -AndrewBuck
>>
>>
>> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
>> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
>> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
>> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
>> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
>> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
>> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
>> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
>> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
>> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
>> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these
>> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
>> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
>> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
>> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
>> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is
>> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
>> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
>> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
>> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
>> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
>> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
>> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
>> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
>> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
>> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
>> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
>> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
>> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
>> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
>> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have
>> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
>> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
>> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
>> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list
>> > HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>> >
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVPsRiAAoJEK7RwIfxHSXb+jwQAMZhc8YlaIGFjM4sDfymuEMY
>> bToXaaGT4zDC5lVdFzfDEs4/u5gNsolRWyuN3jMa+tMPCDmABBOehWdywAEN3zqi
>> EItL6RmXn6rzOoglfGUHC26QkeI3l6nA359IbR9YL8vLld2QNGv7fqsXa6zoObp7
>> /wmpXG/V9Chwf4ywtFo+eEGMvpDEykXM3fD0CLhHzNrex7iD+43O2LhZUN3kykrs
>> unzREelpbuulpw9zhBa8tfBYNGZLj1slC3YyLomOaBS0Tr85Jarloa1KS2fkj6ye
>> BF9M5F2+eXUv5I78dIt9LmloTZzcoSWJAlJkwmkykaj3uqqFBmjs16J1UWzHofFe
>> pB218inZmo+ZhgzmElg/AgjppQvl276GYP0S/yFkmB/pOkAR5jBvw4r2SddzOeIb
>> dYh4Wh0vh3sJn9FxXzWivj9qZvAwXsXggnRTyLoXOAaFCUYZTfX10nr0mdy5VjHA
>> XGHZNGlyRjSC1yCLYQMrwmOUprbrD5qfv3I3uxOXuYqhu4SGvTHdKJe+vKLeAn9R
>> QWnvqmd0OJ5ek7gu9z/AsGo3xHr8s5TJpiyKowUvRlxix5J04GOIHrW9srrxkD1w
>> 9InB8+y4rrASNg1ylIrAcyxBe8ZLYgDgNKGOuSsMPL37Bnu2JwBfzksyzzPmEBAy
>> 348dbGr81F22yS3kf9FX
>> =Xj3x
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Pete Masters*
>> Missing Maps Project Coordinator
>> +44 7921 781 518
>>
>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/>
>>
>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject*
>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/attachments/20150428/42dd3e0e/attachment.html>


More information about the HOT mailing list