[HOT] FW: Validation

Jim Smith seth006 at blarneystone.com
Sat Aug 29 21:11:02 UTC 2015


Yes... and two less words as well!

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Suzan Reed [mailto:suzan at suzanreed.com] 
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 4:12 PM
To: Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com>; hot at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [HOT] FW: Validation

Would 'start work' and 'stop work' be clear to all people?

Suzan
Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.



On August 29, 2015 11:46:55 AM Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> There has been some related discussion in a github issue[1] about this 
> last October.
>
> I rather like the "Stop working on task" alternative that is suggested 
> instead of the "Unlock" button in that issue. Especially since 
> currently the button to lock a task says "Start mapping". There is 
> more obvious connection between start/stop than start/unlock.
>
> Checking in and checking out content is probably a strange concept to 
> many. I don't think it's an improvement over locking and unlocking.
>
> "Submit for review" is a definitive improvement over "Mark as done". 
> It should be implemented.
>
> I've played around a little and made the changes I like the best in a 
> local copy of the tasking manager (screenshot in attachment). I'll 
> implement the changes and make a pull request if we come to an agreement.
>
> -- jarmo
>
> [1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/401
>
> On 29.08.2015 05:22, Jim Smith wrote:
>> I like the idea of renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit for 
>> review'. Little tweaks like that can bring clarity to those starting out.
>> Also Suzan suggested that the “lock” “unlock” function be renamed to 
>> “Check out” and “check in". That would make a big difference as well.
>>
>> I don't want to be too overenthusiastic  but is there any reason not 
>> to make those two improvements? If no objection, can they be done soon?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Dittus [mailto:martin at dekstop.de]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:44 AM
>> To: David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk>
>> Cc: hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [HOT] Validation
>>
>> As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) 
>> I’m starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers.
>> Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.
>>
>> In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an 
>> expert — it could be a comment from someone with similar experience 
>> levels. A second pair of eyes.
>>
>> An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second 
>> opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?
>>
>> m.
>>
>>
>>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
>>>
>>> My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - 
>>> and I can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I 
>>> suspect that there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
>>>
>>> Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 
>>> 'submit for review'.
>>>
>>> A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me 
>>> initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review'
>>> implies that:
>>> - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch 
>>> it, and
>>> - b) I should expect feedback
>>>
>>> This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens 
>>> the blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four 
>>> words of explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I 
>>> understand the time pressure.)
>>>
>>> Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources 
>>> are useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - 
>>> even the new ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still 
>>> fairly new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
>>>
>>> I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging 
>>> to the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
>>> Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the past.
>>>
>>> 1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my 
>>> own (I haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to 
>>> mapping on a mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just 
>>> quickly ask someone advice about something I'm unsure about. In 
>>> these cases I've usually left a comment in the tasking manager about 
>>> whatever I was unsure about, mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
>>>
>>> Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a 
>>> new mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality 
>>> of your mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. 
>>> Getting notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've 
>>> worked on would be nice.
>>>
>>> 2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before 
>>> the activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped 
>>> are not marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without 
>>> making any changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the 
>>> criterion for the task. Especially when the grid has been locked my 
>>> multiple users in the past. "They didn't think it was as done, I'm 
>>> probably missing something." I realize that this thinking only 
>>> propagates the problem, since I'll just be one more user on the list.
>>>
>>> 3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map 
>>> it completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...
>>>
>>> 4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will 
>>> result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated, 
>>> but no tiles are actually being finished.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Jarmo
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger "I've 
>>>>> done some work but not completed the tile could someone review it 
>>>>> please."  I'd rather catch errors early and some new mappers may 
>>>>> not feel confident enough to mark a tile complete.
>>>>
>>>> Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well 
>>>> worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT 
>>>> contributors never mark their first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649
>>>>
>>>> m.
>>>
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