[HOT] Tasking ManagerS (Was: {Re: Map4Haiti} + {[Hot-francophone] Project over Grand'Anse})

Rod Bera rod at goarem.org
Mon Oct 24 12:19:08 UTC 2016

now we've got overlapping tasks.


where do we go from here?

This could/should have been anticipated/prevented.

Now we should consider trans-TM indexing, as these and other TM
instances are probably here to last.

On 24/10/16 10:07, Cristiano Giovando wrote:
> Bonjour,
> (s'il vous plaît excuser mon anglais)
> There are three WorldView 3 images available, captured on October 10
> over the Grand'Anse and Sud departments. These have limited cloud
> coverage and show very dramatically the impact of Hurricane Matthew in
> western Haiti:
> We, at HOT would like to create three tasks to update all baseline
> information as shown by those images. I noticed that you guys
> currently have a task over the same area which is using Bing as
> default imagery source:
> http://taches.francophonelibre.org/project/64
> In order to coordinate our efforts, I would like you to consider this
> project that I just set up and ask you to let me know if you think it
> would make sense to publish it first, since it has that more recent
> imagery:
> http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2252
> Right now it's published with low priority, just for you to be able to
> see it. For reference, this is the exact extent:
> Please let me know what you think, also in terms of instructions.
> Happy to discuss or change anything based on everyone's feedback
> before publishing it (bumping it up to high priority).
> Also, we will not be doing any damage assessment (as indicated in the
> task), so if you guys have any need to do it, feel free to use the TMS
> services off of OAM. Here's one to browse the same October 10 image:
> Looking forward to your feedback.
> Thank you,
> Cristiano

On 24/10/16 11:46, Rod Bera wrote:
> Hi Mikel,
>> that's a seperate topic from running an additional unnecessary
>> tasking manager.
> to me it's not.
> As I understand things, the fact that a task needs to be
> endorsed/supported by HOT if it is to appear on tasks.hotosm.org is a
> problem. The fact that only co-opted ("trained", "friends") individual
> can post a task is a problem too.
> There were discussions on this in the past with people advocating a more
> open policy for tasks.hotosm.org.
> This did not happen for some reasons internal to HOT US Inc.
> Then it appeared as a logical consequence that others would set-up
> tasking managers fit for their needs.
> Related to this is last year's discussion on default logos (TM by
> default had a HOT logo), name (HOT tasking manager formerly incorrectly
> known as OSM tasking manager). This was settled, more or less.
> The next logical step (I also mentioned it at that time) was what is
> happening now: possibly conflicting tasks. Well it is not the case yet:
> as as far as I can see there is no overlap between tasks from
> tasks.hotosm.org and tasks from taches.francophonelibre.org, but it will
> fatally happen at some point.
> To address this I proposed a number of solutions which had not much
> success:
> -indexing tasking managers and tasks into a reference catalogue, or
> -indexing TMs and tasks into catalogueS, possibly one for each TM with
> service metadata, and subsequently allow for either cross-harvesting, or
> -bottom-up harvesting if there is a truly community-operated reference
> catalogue endorsed by everyone.
> I agree this makes things a bit complicated as it would ideally require
> GeoNetwork instances (ideally one for each TM) or something similar. But
> the INSPIRE SDI experience in Europe shows it works quite smoothly.
> However I agree it adds-up some complexity where we could avoid it. If
> only there was only ONE TM that would be EVERYONE'S TM.
> The de facto control of the original TM by HOT with a disputable policy
> as to who had a right/privilege to define and post tasks broke up this hope.
> Given this I have no problem with tasks.hotosm.org being administered
> with HOT US Inc. rules. Or other TM being administered according to
> different policies. We are diverse after all.
> Now, we probably agree that beyond this diversity we have to work
> together as a global community.
> To this aim I'll be happy to collaborate with you to find ways of coming
> up with the kind of "universal catalogue of tasks" we (OSM) need.
> tasks.hotosm.org #2219 #2229 #2236 #2237 #2248 etc., as well as
> taches.francophonelibre.org #35 #40 # 41 #45 #63 #64 #65 #66 #67 etc.
> are all pertinent and they all should be primarily viewed as the
> contributions from the OSM community instead of the organisations
> running the tasking managers.
> Regards,
> Rod
> On 15/10/16 15:28, Mikel Maron wrote:
>> Agree with you John. Working with local mapper groups of course is the
>> best. There are many French speaking HOT members and volunteers,
>> including in Haiti.
>> But that's a seperate topic from running an additional unnecessary
>> tasking manager.
>> Mikel
>> On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 9:08 AM, john whelan
>> <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     Which begs the question why should HOT decide the priorities?
>>     I note that we don't see many projects from local groups especially
>>     in the high priority list and in this case Haiti the local language
>>     is French which means it is more difficult for the local needs to be
>>     understood by none francophone outsiders.
>>     There are problems with the functioning of the government of Haiti
>>     but there are functioning OSM locals but the best way to strengthen
>>     them is to work with them.
>>     Cheerio John
>>     On 15 October 2016 at 08:03, Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at gmail.com
>>     <javascript:return>> wrote:
>>         Having two tasking managers for the same response area is of
>>         course going to create conflicts. There's no need at all to
>>         create jobs for Haiti on another tasking manager. Simply,
>>         communicate the needs for mapping, including AOI, need, etc, to
>>         the HOT activation team and it will be prioritized and set up.
>>         Mikel
>>         On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 4:51 AM, Severin Menard
>>         <severin.menard at gmail.com <javascript:return>> wrote:
>>             Hi,
>>             New update about our contribution to the OSM Map4Haiti
>>             mapping. Job #45
>>             <http://taches.francophonelibre.org/project/45#task/61> is
>>             almost done now and we will start mapping the rural areas
>>             within the hills of département of Grande-Anse, over the
>>             communes of Abricots, Dame-Marie, Chambellan, Moron, Anse
>>             d'Hainault and Grande Anse, located in the most affected
>>             areas by Hurricane Matthew (UNOSAT impact zone 1, with winds
>>             over 120 km/h) with job #64
>>             <http://taches.francophonelibre.org/project/64>, continuing
>>             our systematic, consolidated effort over the hills (called
>>             mornes in Haiti).
>>             We hold an agile SOTM today here at Université Alassane
>>             Ouattara and will have a team of crisis mapping during the
>>             whole day to show students and people what it is. No
>>             newcomer will be invited to map on Haiti from Bouaké but
>>             invited to become a local mapper, raise his skills and join
>>             later when experienced enough.
>>             I hope this message is read by the HOT US coordination team,
>>             especially Dale Kunce:
>>             October 8 6:30 PM UTC I communicated about job #39
>>             <http://taches.francophonelibre.org/project/39> about
>>             pre-disaster mapping over Jeremie. On October 12, when our
>>             mapping is almost done on Central Jeremie, we figure out
>>             people are mapping on the area, due to a HOT US job #2228
>>             <http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2228> created by Dale
>>             Kunce. We stopped and quickly detected all the mistakes done
>>             by very recent mappers.
>>             October 12 11:40 AM UTC I communicated on the hot list
>>             including regarding job #45
>>             <http://taches.francophonelibre.org/project/45> about
>>             mapping Jeremie’s hinterland. Later this day, HOT US job
>>             #2224 <http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2224> covering an
>>             area slightly smaller inside the one I made was created by
>>             Dale Kunce... As if there was no other places to be mapped
>>             in Haiti...
>>             So far, we created 7 jobs over Haiti, I communicated about
>>             them and they are all on the
>>             <http://taches.francophonelibre.org>http://taches.
>>             francophonelibre.org frontpage, so it is not a big deal just
>>             to check them.
>>             @Dale I think HOT US created a curriculum to raise skills to
>>             become Crisis activators, I would advise you to read it one
>>             day when you have a bit of time. If ever it does not mention
>>             to read and communicate in the hot list during an
>>             activation, I would suggest to add it into the
>>             documentation. As an incorporated company, HOT US may have
>>             its own internal tools to organize its mapping, but the
>>             minimum is to communicate a bit on the hot list with the OSM
>>             community, who is the holder of this list (as everything
>>             with @openstreetmap.org <http://openstreetmap.org>).
>>             If you now create a new job covering job #45
>>             <http://taches.francophonelibre.org/project/45#task/61>, I
>>             may try next time to create a job in the middle of the
>>             water, just to see if you jump on it.
>>             Sincerely,
>>             Severin
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Rod Béra,  MCF Géomatique                /   Lecturer, Geomatics
           et SIG pour l'Environnement  /    and Environmental GIS
Agrocampus-Ouest|65 r.Saint-Brieuc|CS84215|35042 Rennes cedex|France
+33 (0) 223 48 5553 - roderic.bera at agrocampus-ouest.fr

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