[Imports] Uploading sidewalks in San Jose, California, US

Clifford Snow clifford at snowandsnow.us
Fri Oct 20 13:07:25 UTC 2017

There are a number of users, including myself, willing to help out fix
those import problems, enough so that I feel confident that when complete,
Santa Clara County will have a pedestrian network that will fully support
routing. While not part of the local Santa Clara community, we happy to
assist them. The goal isn't really to have pedestrian routing, but to
enable people, especially those with limited mobility, to get to and from
their destination. Because of the importance of the goal, I believe the
issues pointed out, will be resolved.

I'm confident that the errors Santa Clara encountered will help other
communities do a better job of adding footways to their communities.


On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20/10/2017 04:43, Nick Bolten wrote:
>>  It will never be the case that the entire pedestrian network is added
>> all at once, or without disconnected portions.
> I'd suggest that adding pedestrian routes without disconnected portions is
> entirely possible.  It needn't be the whole pedestrian infrastructure for a
> city or county, but just adding a bit at a time, and ensuring that each bit
> newly added it routable is entirely possible.
> It's possible that during the process you'll find some disconnections and
> won't have the data immediately to hand and need to go out and survey, but
> SJ is relatively small, compact and walkable* so that really shouldn't be a
> problem.  An example of where data has been added and not immediately
> connected is at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/37.33469/-121.91613
> - to me it wouldn't make sense to add sidewalks without joins, because
> you'll want to use routing as QA to make sure that everything links up
> properly, and you can't do that if things "aren't supposed to link up yet".
> Finding and fixing "unjoined way" routing issues after the event is far
> more problematic than getting it right first time (I've had to do that with
> lots of footpath data south of Manchester in the UK a few years ago and
> figuring out "not routing because of access rights" and "not routing
> because of a join error" is tricky)
> On the router end, it should be as simple as either removing disconnected
>> subgraphs or preventing disconnected subgraphs from being selected during
>> the initial 'find the closest valid way' step.
> It surely makes no sense to suggest that routers should change their code
> to work around some incorrectly added data to OSM ...
> Footways have pretty much one job - to support pedestrian routing (for
> various values of "pedestrian", obviously).  If they don't do that they
> might as well not be there.
>> I'm in contact with the mappers putting in the time to map pedestrian
>> ways in San Jose and they're putting together a dataset of street crossings
>> to start importing. I'd like to suggest that we support their endeavor and
>> time commitments by supporting the inclusion of street crossings, rather
>> than discouraging mapping via threats of reverts on changesets. Everyone's
>> at the table and working to improve the data.
> Indeed, and there has been considerable supportive advice given (on this
> list and elsewhere).  Unfortunately what seems to be happening is that this
> advice is sometimes being ignored.  We should be aiming for a "proper,
> complete map", in a case where a partial import actually makes it harder to
> "map it properly" in the future then a revert of an import makes complete
> sense - though the situation at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#
> map=19/37.33498/-121.91646 suggests that some post-import patching up
> (sometimes referred to as a "bucket and shovel job") may be less work than
> "rework and start again".
> Perhaps you could assure us that the mappers currently imported unjoined
> ways will, with some urgency, make sure that they are actually connected
> and that it won't be reliant on the wider OSM community to fix everything
> up after the event?
> Best Regards,
> Andy
> * even by European standards - as an occasional visitor to the northern
> areas and the downtown for many years I found it more so than e.g. Portland.
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