[Imports] Import of pharmacies in Catalunya, Spain.
Jean-Guilhem Cailton
jgc at arkemie.com
Sun Mar 22 08:42:21 UTC 2020
Hi Lanxana,
You are right. I am sorry I didn’t see it.
Probably because in the original it was standing in a paragraph of its
own, clearly visible in the formatting, which thus underlined its
importance.
And not so in the « transcriptions », where the formatting makes it
appear rather at the end of a long paragraph, apparently part of
“Article 17”.
I remember imports where the key need regarding licensing, especially on
questions of compatibility with specific licenses, was to have an
explicit authorization namely given to OpenStreetMap. (E.g. in case of
future OSM license change…) Which was apparently provided here.
I also confirm that, at least in French law, the safety of persons
prevails on less vital considerations. See e.g. Article 223-7 of Code
Pénal. That 100 physicists and health care workers have used to file a
legal complaint against Prime Minister and former Minister of Health.
https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/coronavirus-une-plainte-contre-edouard-philippe-et-agnes-buzyn-a-ete-deposee-20200321
“Anyone who voluntarily refrains from taking or instigating measures
that make it possible, without risk to himself or to third parties, to
combat a disaster likely to create a danger to the safety of persons
shall be punished by two years' imprisonment and a fine of 30,000 euros.”
(Deepl automatic translation of quote from Le Figaro article)
Do I need to make it quite clear that this was not addressed to you, nor
to those who do what they can to help? ;)
Take good care of yourself.
Best wishes,
Jean-Guilhem
Le 21/03/2020 à 18:50, Lanxana . a écrit :
> Hi, Jean-Guilhem,
>
> the phrase you refer to is transcribed in the three languages:
>
> "Per tant la informació pot ser integrada a la cartografia
> d'OpenStreetMap respectant les condicions i normes mencionades en
> aquesta normativa. "
> "Por lo tanto la información puede ser integrada en la cartografía de
> OpenStreetMap respetando las condiciones y normas mencionadas en esta
> normativa."
> "Therefore, the information can be integrated into the OpenStreetMap
> cartography respecting the conditions and rules mentioned in this
> regulation."
>
> It says that we can use the data in OSM, but they are under the
> conditions mentioned in articles 17.1 and 17.3 of the law of
> transparency, and these are the articles that appear to be invalid for
> OSM.
>
> In any case, after the license change from the original dataset to
> CCO, we are also working to make the change to the rest of the
> datasets that are of interest to the community.
>
> For this I need confirmation from the community that this change is
> enough ...
>
> Thanks.
>
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>
>
> El sáb., 21 mar. 2020 a las 9:20, Jean-Guilhem Cailton
> (<jgc at arkemie.com <mailto:jgc at arkemie.com>>) escribió:
>
> Hello,
>
> (from France — in case this can help to be considered neutral.
> And, fortunately, able to understand written Latin-derived Catalan
> language)
>
> It is quite sad to see that an official letter in Catalan language
> could not be understood and recognized by the global OSM
> Community, apparently, so far.
>
> A sentence from the scanned original official authorization letter
> explicitly states:
> « Therefore, the information can be integrated into OpenStreetMap
> cartography […] »
>
> It is quite strange that this quite crucial sentence is currently
> missing from all three « transcriptions » in the Wiki (Català,
> Español, English)…
> Maybe this explains the misunderstanding?
>
>
> I also take this opportunity to remind that even virtual (on-line)
> « endangering of other people », whether negligent or deliberate,
> (using wording from French Code Pénal — assuming equivalent
> notions also exist in other legislations) is liable to legal action.
>
>
> Take good care of yourself, and of Others in the measure of your
> possibilities.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jean-Guilhem
>
>
> http://twitter.com/jgVisov
>
>
> Le 16/03/2020 à 18:40, Lanxana . a écrit :
>> Hi,
>> we discussed the import in Telegram groups, and then write to the
>> lists. That's why times may have overlapped.
>>
>> All the task will be revised, you can, if you want.
>>
>> An user can have >1000 editions and his user_imports account only
>> 10. It's less expert for this?
>>
>> All the pharmacies listed in the dataset are dispensing
>> prescription drugs. Only the parapharmacies (not included in the
>> dataset) would not. We don't know why another added dispensing=no
>> to pharmacies. May be using non-spanhish recipes? Can I buy a
>> prescription drug in France with my Spanish prescription, or
>> would I have to go to a French doctor to send me a French
>> prescription? I say then that the French pharmacy does not sell
>> prescription drugs, and add dispensing=no?
>>
>> Finally, we could have done the import without giving
>> explanations, without changesets or dedicated users, but we opted
>> to, as far as possible, respond to community concerns to help,
>> and follow the OSM import guidelines.
>>
>> If you see fit, reverse all changes, they are well identified.
>> But I wonder how many imports are being made without the
>> community knowing ...
>>
>> El lun., 16 mar. 2020 a las 18:08, Frederik Ramm
>> (<frederik at remote.org <mailto:frederik at remote.org>>) escribió:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 2020-03-15 10:35, Lanxana . wrote:
>> > We set our goal in emergency services, and more specifically in
>> > pharmacies. We have had express permission for a long time
>> to reuse the
>> > official data, but the import has not been carried out yet.
>> In a short
>> > time we have prepared the project and its management
>> through the Task
>> > Manager, that allows coordinate and verify the tasks.
>>
>> Please do not use the current health issue as an excuse to
>> circumvent
>> usual processes in OSM. You can't let the import task sit
>> around forever
>> and then rush it through "because health crisis".
>>
>> > The import basically consists of verifying the data of the
>> pharmacies
>> > already mapped (address and contact details) and adding
>> those that are
>> > not, and will be done by expert mappers, with several hours
>> and years
>> > behind us, and with experience in both map editing and HOT
>> projects.
>>
>> It appears to me that most of the import is being done by one
>> single
>> user named "jlinfante_import". I would like to know what this
>> mapper
>> maps apart from imports, but they haven't written anything in
>> his user
>> profile that would point to their normal account.
>>
>> > Although we know that it is not the usual procedure, given
>> the urgency
>>
>> Nothing is urgent here. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a
>> pharmacy
>> is missing from OSM. You are just making up an urgent task
>> because you
>> sit at home with nothing else to do.
>>
>> > after discussing it with the Spanish
>> > community (Spanish discussion list
>> >
>> <http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Importacion-equipamientos-basicos-de-Catalunya-farmacias-etc-tp5960515.html>)
>>
>> This is a "discussion" that was started 24 hours before you
>> wrote that
>> message claiming you "have discussed it", and the "community" you
>> discussed it with was two people. (Also I notice that many
>> edits to
>> pharmacies have been made even before that message to the
>> Spanish list,
>> e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82178419 - it
>> appears that
>> you first set up the task and then thought about it later!)
>>
>> This is a parody of an import process - it's almost like the
>> "PEOPLE
>> WILL DIE!!!!" imports we saw from HOT in their early days, which
>> thankfully have made way for a more diligent approach.
>>
>> > we have decided to start it without delay.
>>
>> Rushed decisions like this have the potential to harm OSM, and in
>> principle the import should be reverted purely on the basis of
>> neglecting long-established procedure. We don't want everyone
>> else to
>> "help" by starting some other remotely health-related import
>> in their
>> country "because crisis".
>>
>> Looking at the data in detail, I was struck by some
>> changesets that
>> carry your tags but make other edits
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82265474?node_page=1),
>> others
>> that have an "operator" tag that has the name of the
>> pharmacist in
>> all-capital letters
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7294905972) and
>> the occasional replacement of a "dispensing=no" with a
>> "dispensing=yes"
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1945875594/history) - are you
>> *absolutely* sure that the original mapper was wrong in
>> manually adding
>> "dispensing=no", or are you just overwriting that on a whim?
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org
>> <mailto:frederik at remote.org> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
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>
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https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/preventing_corruption_in_humanitarian_operations
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