[Imports] Import of pharmacies in Catalunya, Spain.

Sat Mar 21 17:50:29 UTC 2020

Hi, Jean-Guilhem,

the phrase you refer to is transcribed in the three languages:

"Per tant la informació pot ser integrada a la cartografia d'OpenStreetMap
respectant les condicions i normes mencionades en aquesta normativa. "
"Por lo tanto la información puede ser integrada en la cartografía de
OpenStreetMap respetando las condiciones y normas mencionadas en esta
normativa."
"Therefore, the information can be integrated into the OpenStreetMap
cartography respecting the conditions and rules mentioned in this
regulation."

It says that we can use the data in OSM, but they are under the conditions
mentioned in articles 17.1 and 17.3 of the law of transparency, and these
are the articles that appear to be invalid for OSM.

In any case, after the license change from the original dataset to CCO, we
are also working to make the change to the rest of the datasets that are of
interest to the community.

For this I need confirmation from the community that this change is enough
...

Thanks.

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El sáb., 21 mar. 2020 a las 9:20, Jean-Guilhem Cailton (<jgc at arkemie.com>)
escribió:

> Hello,
>
> (from France — in case this can help to be considered neutral.
> And, fortunately, able to understand written Latin-derived Catalan
> language)
>
> It is quite sad to see that an official letter in Catalan language could
> not be understood and recognized by the global OSM Community, apparently,
> so far.
>
> A sentence from the scanned original official authorization letter
> explicitly states:
> « Therefore, the information can be integrated into OpenStreetMap
> cartography […] »
>
> It is quite strange that this quite crucial sentence is currently missing
> from all three « transcriptions » in the Wiki (Català, Español, English)…
> Maybe this explains the misunderstanding?
>
>
> I also take this opportunity to remind that even virtual (on-line) «
> endangering of other people », whether negligent or deliberate, (using
> wording from French Code Pénal — assuming equivalent notions also exist in
> other legislations) is liable to legal action.
>
>
> Take good care of yourself, and of Others in the measure of your
> possibilities.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jean-Guilhem
>
>
> http://twitter.com/jgVisov
>
>
> Le 16/03/2020 à 18:40, Lanxana . a écrit :
>
> Hi,
> we discussed the import in Telegram groups, and then write to the lists.
> That's why times may have overlapped.
>
> All the task will be revised, you can, if you want.
>
> An user can have >1000 editions and his user_imports account only 10. It's
> less expert for this?
>
> All the pharmacies listed in the dataset are dispensing prescription
> drugs. Only the parapharmacies (not included in the dataset) would not. We
> don't know why another added dispensing=no to pharmacies. May be using
> non-spanhish recipes? Can I buy a prescription drug in France with my
> Spanish prescription, or would I have to go to a French doctor to send me a
> French prescription? I say then that the French pharmacy does not sell
> prescription drugs, and add dispensing=no?
>
> Finally, we could have done the import without giving explanations,
> without changesets or dedicated users, but we opted to, as far as possible,
> respond to community concerns to help, and follow the OSM import guidelines.
>
> If you see fit, reverse all changes, they are well identified. But I
> wonder how many imports are being made without the community knowing ...
>
> El lun., 16 mar. 2020 a las 18:08, Frederik Ramm (<frederik at remote.org>)
> escribió:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 2020-03-15 10:35, Lanxana . wrote:
>> > We set our goal in emergency services, and more specifically in
>> > pharmacies. We have had express permission for a long time to reuse the
>> > official data, but the import has not been carried out yet. In a short
>> > time we have prepared the project and its management through the Task
>> > Manager, that allows coordinate and verify the tasks.
>>
>> Please do not use the current health issue as an excuse to circumvent
>> usual processes in OSM. You can't let the import task sit around forever
>> and then rush it through "because health crisis".
>>
>> > The import basically consists of verifying the data of the pharmacies
>> > already mapped (address and contact details) and adding those that are
>> > not, and will be done by expert mappers, with several hours and years
>> > behind us, and with experience in both map editing and HOT projects.
>>
>> It appears to me that most of the import is being done by one single
>> user named "jlinfante_import". I would like to know what this mapper
>> maps apart from imports, but they haven't written anything in his user
>> profile that would point to their normal account.
>>
>> > Although we know that it is not the usual procedure, given the urgency
>>
>> Nothing is urgent here. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a pharmacy
>> is missing from OSM. You are just making up an urgent task because you
>> sit at home with nothing else to do.
>>
>> > after discussing it with the Spanish
>> > community (Spanish discussion list
>> > <
>> http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Importacion-equipamientos-basicos-de-Catalunya-farmacias-etc-tp5960515.html
>> >)
>>
>> This is a "discussion" that was started 24 hours before you wrote that
>> message claiming you "have discussed it", and the "community" you
>> discussed it with was two people. (Also I notice that many edits to
>> pharmacies have been made even before that message to the Spanish list,
>> e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82178419 - it appears that
>> you first set up the task and then thought about it later!)
>>
>> This is a parody of an import process - it's almost like the "PEOPLE
>> WILL DIE!!!!" imports we saw from HOT in their early days, which
>> thankfully have made way for a more diligent approach.
>>
>> > we have decided to start it without delay.
>>
>> Rushed decisions like this have the potential to harm OSM, and in
>> principle the import should be reverted purely on the basis of
>> neglecting long-established procedure. We don't want everyone else to
>> "help" by starting some other remotely health-related import in their
>> country "because crisis".
>>
>> Looking at the data in detail, I was struck by some changesets that
>> carry your tags but make other edits
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82265474?node_page=1), others
>> that have an "operator" tag that has the name of the pharmacist in
>> all-capital letters (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7294905972) and
>> the occasional replacement of a "dispensing=no" with a "dispensing=yes"
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1945875594/history) - are you
>> *absolutely* sure that the original mapper was wrong in manually adding
>> "dispensing=no", or are you just overwriting that on a whim?
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
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