[OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: DEC Lands

[Russ Nelson]

Looks to me as if copyright does not cover this dataset, at least  
according to a representative of the office.  Unless anyone here  
objects, I will import it.  There are other issues; I will raise them  
on the talk list.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Robert Morrell <ramorrel at gw.dec.state.ny.us>
> Date: March 9, 2009 2:06:13 PM EDT
> To: Russ Nelson <russ at cloudmade.com>
> Cc: Kurt Swartz <kcswartz at gw.dec.state.ny.us>, Larry Alber <lalber at gw.dec.state.ny.us 
> >
> Subject: Re: DEC Lands
>
> Russ,
>          There is no "creativity" in mapping or displaying of Public  
> owned land. This isn't art, it's legal land rights that impact  
> private land owners.
>
> On what bases would someone with no formal training, no legal deed  
> description, or survey map have to determine if a State boundary is  
> correct or incorrect. Simply holding a GPS receiver does not give  
> someone authority.
>
> Have you read the metadata on the clearinghouse? Read it. If you  
> have any questions, get back to me.
>
> Robert Morrell
> Senior Land Surveyor
> Bureau of Real Property
> Division of Lands and Forests
> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation
> 625 Broadway
> Albany NY 12233-4256
> 518-402-9442
>
>>>> "Russ Nelson" <russ at cloudmade.com> 3/9/2009 1:47 PM >>>
> So to the best of your ability, the DEC Lands dataset reflects a fact
> about the world, and there is zero room for creativity?  (I understand
> why you might feel this way, so if you do, no explanation is needed,
> just a simple "yes" -- to save you the effort of convincing someone
> who agrees with you!!)
> -russ
>
> On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Robert Morrell wrote:
>
>> Russ,
>>        For anyone to edit this DEC spatial data other than DEC
>> staff is absolutely inappropriate. This data layer is built using
>> trained staff using survey maps and deed. If this is your intention
>> I am asking you not to use our data. There are a whole host of
>> issues here. For one, non-survey grade GPS accuracies very widely
>> and can be hundreds of feet wrong. Secondly, sign location is in no
>> way a indicator of the correct  boundary location. Third, sometime
>> the Department may transfer in or transfer out land that may not be
>> reflected in a timely manner on the clearing house data or new land
>> have been purchased. I can go on and on.
>>
>> If you would like to discuss this further you are welcome to call me.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> Robert Morrell
>> Senior Land Surveyor
>> Bureau of Real Property
>> Division of Lands and Forests
>> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation
>> 625 Broadway
>> Albany NY 12233-4256
>> 518-402-9442
>>
>>>>> "Russ Nelson" <russ at cloudmade.com> 3/9/2009 9:37 AM >>>
>> I realize that it's not appropriate to edit the data, and in fact we
>> can keep track of any changes, and either revert them if they are
>> obviously incorrect, or submit them back to you if they seem to be
>> legitimate.  Why would someone make a purposeful edit?  Perhaps they
>> were out in the field with a GPS, and noticed that the signage
>> disagrees with the map?  Of course, it may be the signage that's
>> wrong, but either way it's an issue worthy of resolution.
>>
>> OpenStreetMap is a combination of imported data and user-generated
>> data.  If you're familiar with Wikipedia, OpenStreetMap is very
>> similar in concept, only for geodata.  Imported data goes into the  
>> map
>> under its own userid, and all of your metadata is preserved.  If
>> someone edits anything, it's recorded under their username, so we  
>> know
>> who made the edit.
>>
>> The reason that I ask for permission is that data in OpenStreetMap  
>> may
>> be further downloaded by users.  We have an API.  Anyone can make API
>> queries for, say, a bounding box, and received a download of
>> everything inside that box.  That would include the DEC Lands data.
>> We try very hard not to infringe anyone's copyright.  No copyright is
>> claimed in your metadata, but of course under the Berne Convention a
>> copyright exists nonetheless, and we need your permission to be able
>> to redistribute the data.
>>
>> On Mar 9, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Robert Morrell wrote:
>>
>>> Any data the Department puts on the clearing house is open to the
>>> Public to download.
>>>
>>> I see below you discuss "Anybody who makes additions  or
>>> corrections to the data must share them with others."
>>>
>>> It would not be appropriate to edit this data in any manor.
>>>
>>> What kind of software is this?
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert Morrell
>>> Senior Land Surveyor
>>> Bureau of Real Property
>>> Division of Lands and Forests
>>> NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation
>>> 625 Broadway
>>> Albany NY 12233-4256
>>> 518-402-9442
>>>
>>>>>> "Russ Nelson" <russ at cloudmade.com> 3/7/2009 9:59 AM >>>
>>> Larry, is it acceptable use to import the "DEC Lands" dataset:
>>> http://www.nysgis.state.ny.us/gisdata/inventories/details.cfm?
>>> DSID=1114
>>> Into OpenStreetMap?  I plan to do a full import of all your  
>>> metadata,
>>> so that when you revise your dataset, I can re-import the data and
>>> replace the existing data.
>>>
>>> Note that the license on OpenStreetMap is Creative Commons
>>> Attribution
>>> Share-Alike.  That means that anybody who uses it must acknowledge
>>> the
>>> source (and I know that you want your office to be included there; I
>>> will make sure that happens), and it also means that nobody can lock
>>> the data up in a proprietary manner.  Anybody who makes additions   
>>> or
>>> corrections to the data must share them with others.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
>>> russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
>> russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson
>>
>
> --
> Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
> russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson
>

--
Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
russ at cloudmade.com - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson