[Osmf-talk] Cloudmade and OSMF

[Emilio Anzon]

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 02:19:59PM +0200, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote:
> While I have not the least doubt about the positive way all
> 
> Cloudmade OSMF members DO contribute to OSM
> 
> and to free GEODATA for all, the mere fact that there seems to
> 
> be a conflict of interest between any OSMF board member
> 
> and any company has shown to be a time bomb 
> 
> under our successful cooperation.
> 

hi,
 plese can you show me "when" exploded the bomb ?
and the horrible effects ?

>  
> 
> Large organizations need strict rules, and need to obey its own rules.
> 

i never liked "strict" rules about people - we are not machines


> And OSM is quickly becoming a large organization, and without
> 
> a decent structure will quickly desintegrate into a large battle of
> 
> stupid amateurs.
> 

"stupid amateurs" !!
are you talking with me ?!  :P (quoted)

>  
> 
> So I think that the things that have happened, showed the inexperience of
> 
> "our leaders"   with democracy and transparency.
> 

i do not think so, maybe of diplomacy but not for sure of democracy!

> Signing up a lot of members with a similar background a few hours
> 
> before elections gives a strong taste of manipulation, true or not,
> 
>  and those responsible for that should realize how much harm that
> 
> has done.
> 
that's true if and only if you think maliciously.
in any case the people to elect are 7 and candidates are 9
so i do not think anyone can manipulate it a lot ;)

>  
> 
> Essential democracy is not learned at school, and examples of
> 
> wrong-doing show up in the newspapers all day. If one does not
> 
> want to learn from that, well ultimately that will destroy
> 
> OSM as an international cooperative organization.
> 
<kidding>
did not you watch "citizen Kane"
</kidding>

>  
> 
> We all owe respect and do admire the energy and efforts
> 
> made by Steve and other Cloudmade employees in the past and today.
> 
> But those who founded OSM are not necessarily the best men to
> 
> sustain and manage future OSM.
> 
I can agree but they also showed to be not so bad, even.

>  
> 
> Frederic has put the finger on a sore spot, and that hurts.
> 
> While he might have drawn his conclusions too quickly, or at least wrote 
> 
> them down too "agressively" is true.
> 
>  The reaction of Steve however, is even more aggressive and personal, and witnesses a
> 
> profound lack of diplomatic skills. Something we may demand from
> 
> the board's chairman.
> 
i agree

>  
> 
>  
> 
> Therefore I want to suggest the new board creates a number of
> 
> rules to guarantee transparency and decoupling of interests.
> 
>
too many rules are bad
  
> 
> One of these rules MUST be that no (commercial) party will have more 
> 
> than 1 (voting) position  at the BOARD or any other official  part of OSM.
> 

impossible!
we are no kids and anyone can have some commercial interests bound
somehow to OSM. and it's not bad.

>  
> 
> Other rules for example should guarantee that all OSM nations will be represented 
> 
> in the foundations board (not that every country needs a representative),
> 
how ?

> and that personal membership may not be extended more than 2 terms.
> 
in thet case we really need NEW people that want to spend time for free
and it's not that easy because we are no kids anymore :(
even if they do not do their "job" good I thank them for the energy they
spent. 
I can give advices but not for sure shall tell them they are doing bad
IF I am not ready to propose ME instead of them!

> 
> Gert Gremmen
> 

and please try to quote and reply better in a list!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#How_much_to_trim


\Emilio
-- 
Member of Italian Linux Society - PLUTO - Italian Linux Documentation Project
Member of the Internet Society - ACM - ICANN - USENIX - SAGE
Proud Member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation & Blue Ribbon - ALCEI
GnuPG Key fingerprint = 7AB2 259D C7F7 E26C 25AE  C5DD F9F8 7D71 F43D 2E0E
                                     
<cite>                                                                          
E' ricercando l'impossibile che l'uomo ha sempre realizzato il possibile.          
Coloro che si sono saggiamente limitati a cio' che appariva loro come              
possibile, non hanno mai avanzato di un solo passo.                                
                                        Michail Bakunin (1814 - 1876)              
</cite>