[Osmf-talk] Running

Kathleen Danielson kathleen.danielson at gmail.com
Thu Oct 23 19:55:30 UTC 2014


Sarah,

I see that I could have been clearer that what I found so disrespectful was
the way Frederik referred to Henk.

I have nothing to say about Steve's decision to run, except that as we
still have upcoming elections, I don't know that Steve has staged or
accomplished any coup-d'etat. That should still be up to the electorate,
no? It does seem to have had some rather drastic side repercussions though,
and I'm terribly sorry that Simon felt he had to resign as a result. (I am
certain the situation is more nuanced than that, but that is as much as I
know, and I'm not here to pry.)

I will absolutely agree with you and Ilya that this is now a farce.
On Oct 23, 2014 9:42 PM, "Sarah Hoffmann" <lonvia at denofr.de> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 08:51:17PM +0200, Kathleen Danielson wrote:
> > This is one of the least professional, rudest emails I have ever seen on
> an
> > OSM mailing list. It is completely out of line.
>
> The words may have been harsh but maybe they were called for.
>
> Maybe we should all stop pretending that Steve Coast is the shiny role
> model for OSM. He may have started OSM but from his actions today I can
> only
> presume that he also wishes to end it.
>
> Steve has a long history of being impossible to discuss with and of
> personally insulting pretty much anybody who disagrees with him, so the
> board members have always been a natural target. You can read that up in
> the
> mailing lists. I don't have the energy right now to look through the
> archives for
> you. He has managed to wear out pretty much anybody who is a bit more
> deeply
> involved in the project and as you can read from his mails, he is well
> aware
> of it. So the only thing he could achieve by standing for the board is to
> cause the shitstorm that has indeed ensured. Meanwhile, he puts himself
> into
> the spotlight as the one who comes to the rescue. Unfortunately, it always
> works because there are always new people who have only heard of him as the
> great founder and not yet experienced his vicious attacks.
>
> I am utterly sorry that I was the one to give Steve the opening he needed
> to
> stage this coup-d'etat. I'm long enough with the project and should have
> known
> that the osmf mailinglist is not a place to be trusted. But what is done is
> done. Now we have lost pretty much the best chairman that could have
> happend
> to OSMF and we somehow have to deal with it.
>
> Or maybe you have to deal with it. I, for one, do not wish to be in a OSMF
> where Steve Coast is anywhere near the board, not as member, not as
> chairman
> and not even as chairmen emiratus or whatever title he has managed to
> invent
> for himself. I don't even want to be in a OSMF where he stands for board
> election. As Ilya stated, such as it is, it is all nothing but a farce.
>
> Sarah
>
>
> > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On 10/23/2014 04:57 PM, steve at asklater.com wrote:
> > > > No more pretending everything is wonderful.
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > > I think it's a real shame that Henk wasn't supported in his SOTM work
> > > > this year.
> > >
> > > I'm surprised that you would say that. Were you present in the
> (several)
> > > board meetings where Henk either refused or neglected to let the rest
> of
> > > the board in on the current state of planning? We had SOTM on the
> agenda
> > > more than once and Henk certainly did not ask for help.
> > >
> > > I know that Henk put in lots of hours in SotM and I refrained from
> > > pointing a finger but if you really intend to start looking for what
> > > went wrong then SOTM has "Communication Failure" written in red,
> > > flashing letters across page one. And this didn't start with Buenos
> > > Aires, it is something that has always been there - one person at the
> > > centre not allowing anyone else to peek in their books. This works as
> > > long as it works but if that one person then becomes dragged under with
> > > other stuff, you've set yourself up for failure because you aren't
> > > *allowing* other people to support you.
> > >
> > > I know you're a fan of Henk's. Remember the F2F dinner in Berlin where
> > > you said that SOTM wouldn't be going anywhere without Henk, and I said
> > > that's precisely the problem? Things haven't changed, SOTM is still a
> > > one-man show by design.
> > >
> > > What is a shame is not that Henk wasn't supported but that there's not
> > > even a setup that would let anyone give support. You know that
> perfectly
> > > well but still you write ominous lines like the ones I quoted above,
> > > pointing a finger at god-knows-whom (whoever it was who should have
> lent
> > > support I guess). Not pretending everything is wonderful is a good step
> > > ahead. Not pretending everything is someone else's fault would also be
> > > welcome.
> > >
> > > Bye
> > > Frederik
> > >
> > > --
> > > Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09"
> E008°23'33"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> > >
>
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>
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