[Osmf-talk] Running

[Simon Poole]

Kevin,

my sincere apologies if the discussions are causing you concern. 

If it is any consolation this is 7 years of pent up problems being
discussed, some of them go back even further to the very beginning of
OSM, long before you or I had anything to do with it. They just were
never resolved, just ignored or swept under the rug. Not discussing them
is not going to help getting over them and I don't think there is any
reasonable way we can protect newcomers from  seeing some pretty ugly
things right now.

Simon


Am 28.10.2014 00:52, schrieb Kevin Arruda:
> I've recently joined OSMF (just two weeks ago) and was absolutely
> stunned by the email reflector conversation.  The impression it gives
> of OSMF is abysmal. In all my years working with standards/consortium
> bodies, I have never seen something like this on the general reflector.
>
> OSMF is growing quickly as I understand, so perhaps some thought
> should be given to what conversations new members are exposed to
> without discretion.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Martijn van Exel <m at rtijn.org
> <mailto:m at rtijn.org>> wrote:
>
>     I am just so mystified by these personal attacks and disappointed
>     to see the conversation spin out of control like this, especially
>     when fuelled by folks who have otherwise done great things for
>     this project. If you have a personal score to settle with Steve
>     (or anyone for that matter), we all would be better off if you
>     would refrain from piggybacking your gripes onto what was a pretty
>     civil discussion.
>
>     Get some rest.
>
>     Martijn
>
>     On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Harry Wood <mail at harrywood.co.uk
>     <mailto:mail at harrywood.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>         To be fair to Steve, he is a bit less antagonistic when you
>         meet him in person, but who isn't? I agree with Sarah
>         Hoffmann's description of him
>
>         > Steve has a long history of being impossible to discuss with
>         and of
>
>         > personally insulting pretty much anybody who disagrees with him.
>
>         > He has managed to wear out pretty much anybody who is a bit
>         more deeply
>         > involved in the project
>
>         So to my mind it's very bad news when Steve announces he wants
>         to be more involved again. Simon Poole clearly feels the same.
>         What a shame.
>
>         When Steve announced "MapClub" and "OSMPlus", my thought was
>         that they're interesting ideas, and if they came from anyone
>         else I would've supported them, but having new parts of
>         OpenStreetMap with Steve at the helm is really the last thing
>         we need.
>
>         They were also problematic from a "competition" point of view,
>         but I think Kai raises an interesting point, that complaining
>         about this competition is a bit at odds with the "keep OSMF
>         small and lean" viewpoint.
>
>         I subscribe to that viewpoint. Hiring lots of people and
>         growing OSMF doesn't need to be the goal. But we need to be
>         clear about what that means when it comes to "sister"
>         organisations. It surely means they should be encouraged. It
>         means we should try to solve more OSM problems, build more
>         structure, and move more money around outside of the OSMF.
>         Personally I think we should also have agreements in place
>         which cement OSMF as a relevant central organisation with
>         secure funding. But that's a complicated issue which the board
>         needs to work on.
>
>         ...and all the while the chairman emeritus of the OSMF will
>         "try new things" when we least expect it.
>
>         Harry
>
>         _______________________________________________
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>         osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>
>         https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Martijn van Exel
>     skype: mvexel
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     osmf-talk mailing list
>     osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>
>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> .......................................................
> Kevin Arruda
> arruda.k at gmail.com <mailto:arruda.k at gmail.com>
>
>
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