[Osmf-talk] Proposal - OSMF Should **NOT** Adopt a Code of Conduct

Joseph Reeves iknowjoseph at gmail.com
Sun Dec 3 23:24:05 UTC 2017


Hi Michael,

>Could you offer Stefan alternative ways to express his wish that Emily
>gives examples/reasons? How should he ask her?

No, because I said:

> Without doubt you will have seen hostility and personal tension on the
list
> over the last couple of weeks. It would be impossible not to see that. But
> you've asked Emily for a specific instance relating to her. The point is,
> the hostility and personal tension is discouraging to many people, whether
> or not it was directed specifically, and personally, towards themselves.
> Asking for someone to point out a specific instance that they have
suffered
> abuse is not OK, misses the point of Community Standards, and only
> threatens to worsen the situation.

In reply to:

> It is easy to point on someone else and claiming him to be <bad
> attribute> but it is not constructive and helpful if you don't explain
> how to make things better.

In this email thread, and others recently, I have tried to say that
questioning people's feelings after they've expressed them, isn't an OK
thing to do.

Lets think of a real world example: If someone said to me "I don't like
heights" and I replied asking for specific examples of when they'd fallen
from a high building, I'd look like a bit of a jerk.

Again, to be clear, Emily seemed to be commenting on a general feeling of
hostility and tension on the mailing list. Nobody can argue with this. But
the response from Stefan was to ask for a *specific *instance relating to
herself: This has a chilling effect on people that say "I don't like the
atmosphere here, it puts me off contributing, although I haven't suffered
personally myself".

Another real world example, because I think they're helpful: Imagine you
went out for a pleasant evening with friends and ended up in a bar in which
a monumental brawl was happening. One section of the bar is effectively
dedicated to fighting, it's given a bad atmosphere to the rest of the
establishment, and it's spoiling your evening with friends. If you say
"let's leave, I don't like the atmosphere", it would be pretty uncool for
someone to say "we don't need to leave, nobody's hit you. Why don't you go
over there and buy some drinks?"

Cheers, Joseph



On 3 December 2017 at 23:06, Michael Reichert <nakaner at gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi Joseph,
>
> Am 03.12.2017 um 23:56 schrieb Joseph Reeves:
> > Look again at your email. Emily wrote:
> >
> >> but this space feels fraught with hostility and personal tensions
> >> - some of which goes years back.
> >
> > In your response you asked for specific examples that Emily has suffered:
> >
> >> Can you pls. point to a mailing list post where you experienced
> >> hostility and personal tensions?
> >
> > Without doubt you will have seen hostility and personal tension on the
> list
> > over the last couple of weeks. It would be impossible not to see that.
> But
> > you've asked Emily for a specific instance relating to *her. *The point
> is,
> > the hostility and personal tension is discouraging to many people,
> whether
> > or not it was directed specifically, and personally, towards themselves.
> > Asking for someone to point out a specific instance that they have
> suffered
> > abuse is not OK, misses the point of Community Standards, and only
> > threatens to worsen the situation.
>
> Could you offer Stefan alternative ways to express his wish that Emily
> gives examples/reasons? How should he ask her?
>
> It is easy to point on someone else and claiming him to be <bad
> attribute> but it is not constructive and helpful if you don't explain
> how to make things better.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschl├╝sselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
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>
>
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